Could you give us an idea where you are getting this idea that 210.23 does not apply to residential branch circuits? I would like to know where we are all missing this.
DDawg, the 2011 has removed the exception that receptacles for freezers etc in a garage do not need GFI protection. Now even the garage door opener needs GFI protection.
210.23 Permissible Loads. In no case shall the load exceed
the branch-circuit ampere rating. An individual branch
circuit shall be permitted to supply any load for which it is
rated. A branch circuit supplying two or more outlets or
receptacles shall supply only the loads specified according
to its size as specified in 210.23(A) through (D) and as
summarized in 210.24 and Table 210.24.
(A) 15- and 20-Ampere Branch Circuits. A 15- or 20-
ampere branch circuit shall be permitted to supply lighting
units or other utilization equipment, or a combination of
both, and shall comply with 210.23(A)(1) and (A)(2).
Exception: The small-appliance branch circuits, laundry
branch circuits, and bathroom branch circuits required in a
dwelling unit(s) by 210.11(C)(1), (C)(2), and (C)(3) shall
supply only the receptacle outlets specified in that section.
(1) Cord-and-Plug-Connected Equipment Not Fastened
in Place. The rating of any one cord-and-plug-connected
utilization equipment not fastened in place shall not exceed
80 percent of the branch-circuit ampere rating.
(2) Utilization Equipment Fastened in Place. The total
rating of utilization equipment fastened in place, other than
luminaires, shall not exceed 50 percent of the branchcircuit
ampere rating where lighting units, cord-and-plugconnected
utilization equipment not fastened in place, or
both, are also supplied.
(B) 30-Ampere Branch Circuits. A 30-ampere branch circuit
shall be permitted to supply fixed lighting units with
heavy-duty lampholders in other than a dwelling unit(s) or
utilization equipment in any occupancy. A rating of any one
cord-and-plug-connected utilization equipment shall not
exceed 80 percent of the branch-circuit ampere rating.
(C) 40- and 50-Ampere Branch Circuits. A 40- or 50-
ampere branch circuit shall be permitted to supply cooking
appliances that are fastened in place in any occupancy.
In other than dwelling units, such circuits shall be
permitted to supply fixed lighting units with heavy-duty lampholders,
infrared heating units, or other utilization equipment.
(D) Branch Circuits Larger Than 50 Amperes. Branch
circuits larger than 50 amperes shall supply only nonlighting
outlet loads.
210.23 Permissible Loads. In no case shall the load exceed the branch-circuit ampere rating. An individual branch circuit shall be permitted to supply any load for which it is rated. A branch circuit supplying two or more outlets or receptacles shall supply only the loads specified according to its size as specified in 210.23(A) through (D) and as summarized in 210.24 and Table 210.24.
(A) 15- and 20-Ampere Branch Circuits. A 15- or 20- ampere branch circuit shall be permitted to supply lighting units or other utilization equipment, or a combination of both, and shall comply with 210.23(A)(1) and (A)(2). Exception: The small-appliance branch circuits, laundry branch circuits, and bathroom branch circuits required in a dwelling unit(s) by 210.11(C)(1), (C)(2), and (C)(3) shall supply only the receptacle outlets specified in that section.
(1) Cord-and-Plug-Connected Equipment Not Fastened in Place. The rating of any one cord-and-plug-connected utilization equipment not fastened in place shall not exceed 80 percent of the branch-circuit ampere rating.
(2) Utilization Equipment Fastened in Place. The total rating of utilization equipment fastened in place, other than luminaires, shall not exceed 50 percent of the branchcircuit ampere rating where lighting units, cord-and-plugconnected utilization equipment not fastened in place, or both, are also supplied.
(B) 30-Ampere Branch Circuits. A 30-ampere branch circuit shall be permitted to supply fixed lighting units with heavy-duty lampholders in other than a dwelling unit(s) or utilization equipment in any occupancy. A rating of any one cord-and-plug-connected utilization equipment shall not exceed 80 percent of the branch-circuit ampere rating.
(C) 40- and 50-Ampere Branch Circuits. A 40- or 50- ampere branch circuit shall be permitted to supply cooking appliances that are fastened in place in any occupancy. In other than dwelling units, such circuits shall be permitted to supply fixed lighting units with heavy-duty lampholders, infrared heating units, or other utilization equipment.
(D) Branch Circuits Larger Than 50 Amperes. Branch circuits larger than 50 amperes shall supply only nonlighting outlet loads.
Boy....some of you guys are getting touchy.......come....lets keep it civil and 'just try to get along'.....
Electrical stuff is a lot like the law....we have the 'letter' of the law, and then we have the 'spirit' of the law.
There are things that are dictated by the NEC....and then others that are just general practice....
For example....all outlets that are outside...in a bathroom...in a ground level garage....or kitchen counter top have to be GFIC.
But....your allowed to have a non-GFIC in the garage for a fridge or freezer....
I'm in the process of wiring up my house now....my new meter is in place and connected to the service....existing house is back in full operation....and I'm slowly getting the addition wired. In the process I'm doing some upgrades to the existing house....currently, my kitchen has only 2 ckts to it....when I'm done, there will be 5.
I'm pretty much wiring it up as Greg explained in his first post.....I won't violate any NEC codes...but much of it seems common sense...
Fridge on it's own ckt....that way you don't accidently trip a breaker using something else and leave it without power.
Outlets at the counter top level....GFIC and on their own ckt.
Microwave...it's a countertop unit...but I have a built in cubby above the oven for it...so it will have it's own breaker
DW and disposal on it's own breaker.
Stop top (gas) and Vent hood on it's own breaker.
Electric oven on it's own breaker.
I have never tripped a breaker in my house (expect when I drove the ground rod through the conduit going to my garage). If I'm tripping breakers doing normal stuff in the house....something is not normal and needs to be addressed.
You ever going to post that reference? I have all the codebooks and handbooks from 1996-2011, so I'll find it, scan it and post it as soon as you let me know where to look.
Well, to keep this clean and simple, in a nutshell, if the manufacture of the appliance requires a dedicated circuit, then you don't have an option.... other wise I use the loads on the name plates and whether they are fastened in place or not to determine what gets what for circuits.
Making it simple: Electric Stove or electric oven needs its own, Dishwasher can share the same breaker for the garbage disposal if there is one, or also with a trash compactor, as long as all three together do not exceed the total amount of amps for the circuit. Microwave needs its own, whether it is a over the range, or counter top that sits on a shelf, or somewhere on the counter. Fridge can share either off of the Branch circuit that does the counters, gas stove can also share off of the counter branch circuit. Lighting needs to be on its own circuit, but can share off of other rooms.
The branch circuits for the counters can also do the baseboard outlets, dining area, pantry, can not feed any other rooms in the house.
Dishwasher can share the same breaker for the garbage disposal if there is one, or also with a trash compactor, as long as all three together do not exceed the total amount of amps for the circuit.
These items are fastened in place, and you cannot exceed 50 percent of the branch circuit ampere rating when sharing the same circuit..... so this could be an issue...
Not vague. See post above yours. Simple question, especially for Kitchens, is about the easiest to answer, since it is already spelled out in the NEC regarding SWBC & Kitchens, along with beaten to the death on this forum, that the horse has nothing else to give.
I am glad the NEC does not call for a dedicated circuit for a countertop microwave. Can you see trying to decide where it would go on the counter when doing the install? Wait, the HO doesn't want it there so you need to rewire?
Side note: my 1450 watt MW drawing 13.5A is incorrectly installed on a 15 amp lighting circuit and rarely trips the breaker. I am not endorsing this practice and plan to change it, but it is a low priority at the end of the day.
These items are fastened in place, and you cannot exceed 50 percent of the branch circuit ampere rating when sharing the same circuit..... so this could be an issue...
Show the code cite. Give you a clue, there is no 50% requirement for residential, and you will find that buried in a citation regarding dw's and gd's. Bit hey, you know more than all of the rest of us.
I will help you out though. The NEC states in these exact words "As long as it does not exceed the stated amount of amps on the OCPD.". But hey, ai must be pulling that out my ass. Guess again stickboy.
I am done with you, since it is hard to win something when you are not trying, with people like you.
show the code cite. Give you a clue, there is no 50% requirement for residential, and you will find that buried in a citation regarding dw's and gd's. Bit hey, you know more than all of the rest of us.
Yep, read through it everytime something like this comes up. Prob know it better than you do. Maybe you should spend more time following through the various jumps that the NEC makes in diff code cites, than sticking with one relvant section that you and a lot of others miss a certain part, that the 50% rule does not apply in resi settings.
Especially in the above part that you mis-cited. Whoops, did I just state something that the NEC covers in detail. Guess I did.
I have a life and if I did want to look it up, which I won't, but you are more than welcome to do so.
Kid, you sure are picking a fight with the wrong person. Maybe you should spend some time reading through the NEC, than picking up sticks and being a gopher stickboy.
k_buz, you like the kid really miss the point. Guessing that you along with the youngster should actually read the NEC, and stop pulling what you want out of the air, and reading more into what people post. But than again, you two have it in your own world that it is your way of thinking and no one else has an opinion.
I don't follow you, we actually post code sections, where as you just garble nonsense and opinions... prove me wrong with the NEC if you think that I am.
Greg...you post here to help people out...correct? Then help us out. If we are reading the code incorrectly, please show us where so we don't make the same mistake in the future.
The part regarding the 50% rule that I stated does not apply is in the same code reference that you gave. Again, it has nothing to do with the OP orig. question, and if it was not for the kid attempting to make a stupid argument about nothing, which as I stated and answered in my opinion as to what the OP asked "What devices need dedicated outlets". But the kid took it as that it was required by code.
Then again, too many people like the kid tend to get so OCD about the code and delve on one finite point, instead of looking at the big picture, I am pretty much done at this point arguing about stupid **** that has nothing to do other than some kid trying to be stupid about nothing.
k_buz, it is in the sidebar on pages 99-100 in the almost 1500 page book, not the smaller "edited" edition. But then again, I must be dreaming it, because it is still in there when I just pulled it up, and has been in there since the 2008 edition. But hey, do not get you wrong, because I just pulled it out of the air, which I didn't.
Really Greg, why not just post the NEC year (handbook or codebook) and the section for the reference.
BTW, the "1500 page book" is the NEC Handbook. It contains additional commentary that is NOT part of the National Electrical Code and is NOT enforceable. The NEC ("smaller version") is not edited. It is the REAL code. Anything other than the NEC codebook is just opinion.
k_buz, it is in the sidebar on pages 99-100 in the almost 1500 page book, not the smaller "edited" edition. But then again, I must be dreaming it, because it is still in there when I just pulled it up, and has been in there since the 2008 edition. But hey, do not get you wrong, because I just pulled it out of the air, which I didn't.
This is another load of crap. If you are referring to the handbook then say so. And by the way, the NEC is not the "edited version" of the handbook. I also agree with the other real electricians here.
Sometimes you have to use common sense since the code is minimum. We installed one circuit for the fridge two countertop circuits mwbc for the dishwasher and disposal and one circuit for electric stove hood and microwave all 20 amps. And lighting on 15 amp circuit shared with hallway and bathroom lights.
Oh the know it all, condescending comments just keep on coming. Must be nice to feel you have the final word on everything.
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