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Old 07-31-2011, 10:01 AM   #16
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Kitchen circuits


Guys, sorry to beat this dead horse but I really appreciate the info.

So, I can't add the pendant lights to my two kitchen SABC. And it sounds like my 20A microwave circuit is considered a SABC since it supplies receptacles in the kitchen. It has a GFI wall receptacle above the counter and then one more that will be inside the upper cabinet for the microwave. I think that leaves me with with just two options...add these pendant lights to my 15A lighting circuit or run a new circuit. Is that correct?
My only other outlets in that area are the dining room receptacles which are all on the SABCs.

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Old 07-31-2011, 10:05 AM   #17
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Kitchen circuits


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Ok, so would it be correct to say, "an outlet is a box in a circuit where a receptacle or switch may be installed".
Or nothing installed. Could just be a junction box with a blank cover.
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So, what properties define a kitchen SABC. Is it any circuit with receptacles above a kitchen counter? Any circuit with receptacles in a kitchen?
In general, a circuit with receptacles in a kitchen, dining rm, breakfast nook, etc. Not all SABC receptacles are mounted above a kitchen counter. To me, this is almost being thought of backwards.
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Old 07-31-2011, 10:13 AM   #18
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The micro should be on its own dedicated circuit, not tied in with the counter, check the instructions. Correct, the lights would have to come from another circuit or a new circuit.
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Old 07-31-2011, 11:55 AM   #19
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Kitchen circuits


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I am finishing up the wiring in my kitchen remodel and I have a question about this same setup specifically about the last statement regarding adding lights to a small appliance circuit...
I have all of the circuits in place as suggested above. I need to add two pairs of over-bar pendant lights over the bars I'm adding to the kitchen. One pair switched on each of two opposite walls. It seems dumb to add these to the 15A lighting circuit which already has 7 recessed lights, a ceiling fan/light combo, dining room chandelier, plus three outlets in the adjacent family room (end table lamps). I've done the math and even with all the lights on, I'm still okay. The 20A small appliance circuit will power a toaster and a blender a few times per month. Most likely these two appliances will never run at the same time. It just seems silly to have this appliance circuit that is so underutilized.
I have a third 20A circuit (GFCI protected via receptacle) in the kitchen that has two receptacles. Only thing connected will be a 1600W microwave. Can I (should I) put these two sets of switched lights on this circuit instead of the lighting circuit?
No lighting on SABC's. Add it to the lighting branch circuit.
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Old 07-31-2011, 11:57 AM   #20
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Kitchen circuits


Quote:
Originally Posted by mystic_cobra View Post
Guys, sorry to beat this dead horse but I really appreciate the info.

So, I can't add the pendant lights to my two kitchen SABC. And it sounds like my 20A microwave circuit is considered a SABC since it supplies receptacles in the kitchen. It has a GFI wall receptacle above the counter and then one more that will be inside the upper cabinet for the microwave. I think that leaves me with with just two options...add these pendant lights to my 15A lighting circuit or run a new circuit. Is that correct?
My only other outlets in that area are the dining room receptacles which are all on the SABCs.
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Old 07-31-2011, 01:20 PM   #21
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Kitchen circuits


I was under the impression that a switch box is not an outlet, only boxes in which a receptacle is/or could be installed and all lighting fixture boxes. Not sure what the NEC 2011 rule requiring a neutral in all switch boxes does to my impression.

The end run of a 3 way switch even with a 4 wire cable to provide a neutral does not necessarily have a constant hot to make it an outlet.
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Old 07-31-2011, 01:58 PM   #22
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Unfortunately the definition is vague. Again, the 2008 definition: Outlet: A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment.

Points of thought (in my opinion): A 240V box qualifies as an outlet box, though no neutral exist. A dead-end of a 3-way that has a neutral available qualifies, as current can be taken. No mention in the definition that the power has to be constant. For that matter, a 3-way without a neutral would qualify, as current is taken from one conductor and transferred to another, with the final result supplying utilization equipment, though that equipment is not necessarily attached to that particular device. Again, opinion. Gotta love the vagueness of the code sometimes.

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