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sirsparksalot 02-07-2013 12:12 AM

Kitchen Circuit Rating
 
Do non-countertop receptacles in the kitchen need to be on 20 amp circuits?

rrolleston 02-07-2013 12:20 AM

Other than the two required 20 amp SABC you can install whatever you want in addition to those.

sirsparksalot 02-07-2013 12:38 AM

Small Appliance Branch Circuits. 2 required.

I think I was under the misconception that these were to serve countertops only, but now I'm thinking that they include the entire kitchen, so, we must have 2 receptacles on 1 circuit serving a countertop that measures 12" (inches) long, and one for the wall space, and they are to be separate; is that correct?

Edited for typo

frenchelectrican 02-07-2013 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirsparksalot (Post 1111424)
Small Appliance Branch Circuits. 2 required.

I think I was under the misconception that these were to serve countertops only, but now I'm thinking that they include the entire kitchen, so, we must have 2 receptacles on 1 circuit serving a countertop that measures 24' long, and one for the wall space, and they are to be separate; is that correct?


If you have long countertop which it is 24 feet long you can split in two circuits or more depending on how you did the lay out.

The last kitchen I done with my customer which they have 26 feet countertop so I split in 3 circuits and that work very well.

For the non countertop portation we go by 6/12 rules but it is a part of SABC depending on the lay out and how the circuits run.

And just be aware with countertop the spacing is pretty specfic on the spacing pattern useally 2/4 feet which it mean you can have a recptale no more than 4 feet apart that is the max distance on countertop side.

Merci,
Marc

sirsparksalot 02-07-2013 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frenchelectrican (Post 1111425)
If you have long countertop which it is 24 feet long you can split in two circuits or more depending on how you did the lay out.

The last kitchen I done with my customer which they have 26 feet countertop so I split in 3 circuits and that work very well.

For the non countertop portation we go by 6/12 rules but it is a part of SABC depending on the lay out and how the circuits run.

And just be aware with countertop the spacing is pretty specfic on the spacing pattern useally 2/4 feet which it mean you can have a recptale no more than 4 feet apart that is the max distance on countertop side.

Merci,
Marc

Marc, I meant to say 12" (inches), as in 210.52 (C)

frenchelectrican 02-07-2013 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirsparksalot (Post 1111427)
Marc, I meant to say 12" (inches), as in 210.52 (C)

Opps sorry I misunderstood that part and I am sorry if I did omit that part .,, tsk., tsk ., shame on moi I should know better typing while half awake drinking coffee ( in Parisan time zone )

Ok sorry about again let get to the point .,

If you have any undivied countertop is more than 12 inches you will required to install a receptale but if you have a countertop let say 10 inches then no you do not need a receptle at all.

There is one more thing if you have island countertop if the overhang is under 6* inches you will required a receptle as well. ( I am pretty sure that is part of SABC )

Merci,
Marc


* note : it may change to 8 inches but all it depending on your state/local code for details for island requirment which it will change a bit.

sirsparksalot 02-07-2013 01:18 AM

OK, thanks Marc, and that was MY fault, not yours in the misreading.

Now, what I'm trying to find out is, apart from the countertop receptacles, are ALL receptacles in the kitchen considered SABC? In other words, the general purpose receps on the wall, they are part of the 2 SABC's, correct?

And if so, can lighting be part of them?

sirsparksalot 02-07-2013 01:21 AM

Here's what I have.

The kitchen lighting is feeding a wall receptacle (non-countertop). I'm pretty sure that this is against code, but I think that since it's existing, it will be grandfathered.

NOW, I need an outdoor light, and the closest, and easiest place to pull a feed to the outdoor lamp is from that receptacle. Would this be a violation?

Note that there's no crawl or attic space for the kitchen area.

frenchelectrican 02-07-2013 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirsparksalot (Post 1111434)
OK, thanks Marc, and that was MY fault, not yours in the misreading.

Now, what I'm trying to find out is, apart from the countertop receptacles, are ALL receptacles in the kitchen considered SABC? In other words, the general purpose receps on the wall, they are part of the 2 SABC's, correct?

Oui they do in most case.

And if so, can lighting be part of them?

Just keep the lighting system seperated from SABC this is the safest way to deal with it. in case something trip the GFCI or it got a overload it will not shut the light out.

That why I always use the light on seperated circuit ( genrally from other rooms depending on the load and what specfic circuit it used )

Merci,
Marc

frenchelectrican 02-07-2013 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirsparksalot (Post 1111437)
Here's what I have.

The kitchen lighting is feeding a wall receptacle (non-countertop). I'm pretty sure that this is against code, but I think that since it's existing, it will be grandfathered.

NOW, I need an outdoor light, and the closest, and easiest place to pull a feed to the outdoor lamp is from that receptacle. Would this be a violation?

Note that there's no crawl or attic space for the kitchen area.


If you leave that alone it will genrally become grandfathered ( as long the wall is not ripped open or gutted )

If that receptale is not part of SABC I am pretty sure you can tap into that one without issue. ( only gotcha is make sure you remember bathroom and dinning room circuits plus garage circuits gernerally off limits )

Merci,
Marc

busman 02-07-2013 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rrolleston (Post 1111416)
Other than the two required 20 amp SABC you can install whatever you want in addition to those.

Not correct. You can install as many SABCs as you want, but all countertop receptacles must be on one of the SABCs.

Mark

Gac66610 02-07-2013 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by busman (Post 1111492)
Not correct. You can install as many SABCs as you want, but all countertop receptacles must be on one of the SABCs.

Mark


I think he said it correctly, he said "the two required", which I took as the minimum required by code.
I normally do three, two for the counter tops, and one for the dining room.
Some people do four, two for the counter tops, one for the dining room, and one for the fridge.

busman 02-07-2013 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gac66610 (Post 1111505)
I think he said it correctly, he said "the two required", which I took as the minimum required by code.
I normally do three, two for the counter tops, and one for the dining room.
Some people do four, two for the counter tops, one for the dining room, and one for the fridge.

The way I read his post is that he's saying that if you install the two SABCs, then you could put another countertop receptacle on another 15A circuit. This is not correct or permitted.

Mark

rrolleston 02-07-2013 09:12 AM

Our home has three SABC two for the counter tops. One for small microwave gas stove and hood fan. Dedicated circuit for fridge. And a MWBC for dishwasher disposal. Lighting is on the same circuit as the bathroom laundry room and hallway lighting.

But our home is really small and it works. When doing the kitchen I like the fridge on its own circuit so a tripped GFCI can't interrupt the fridge.

Sent from my iPhone using DIY Forum

Gac66610 02-07-2013 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by busman (Post 1111511)
The way I read his post is that he's saying that if you install the two SABCs, then you could put another countertop receptacle on another 15A circuit. This is not correct or permitted.

Mark

I see how you got that.
I just read it differently.:)

I'll catch the fridge, before the GFCI, then it won't bother the fridge if the GFCI trips.

Here's a question I have asked my inspectors.

Receptacles in appliance garages, do not count for counter top receptacle SABC (spacing), so does that mean they don't need to be on the SABC?:whistling2:


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