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Old 02-24-2013, 07:43 PM   #16
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Kitchen appliances and NEC requirements


Some of the 1 hp disposals recommend 15 20 amp circuits.

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Old 02-26-2013, 12:01 AM   #17
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Kitchen appliances and NEC requirements


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Originally Posted by joemc3 View Post
I'm the owner right now and I have the microwave plugged into one of the SABC outlet at the moment, and I have a nice range hood (plug-in for electrical) for the gas range. So it should work out ok for now?

It will be much easier to run a new seperated circuit due in future when someone change the mind and go with microhood it will be ready to handle that load without issue.


Although, should I still install a separate circuit for the rangehood -- if I sell the property 10 years later it would be of value for the next owner if he/she might want a microhood instead?

It will be much easier for future owner or yourself if done right in first place.

I just checked the distance of the range hood from the gas range -- and sure enough it's less than 30" (like 19"). What's the minimum height for gas range? Looks like I'd need to move the range hood up higher (and cut the vent pipes shorter, etc. ...)?
This part it will not mention very much in NEC at all but more on IRC ( International Resdentail Code ) or IBC ( International Building Code ) one of the two it will mention that.

I am pretty sure it will be more than 24 inches but excat height that will depending on the state/local codes it will enforce it.

Also check with your local inspector for latest info on this one due there are few different requirement it will be used.

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Old 02-26-2013, 08:49 AM   #18
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Kitchen appliances and NEC requirements


It seems 2005 NEC requires an individual branch circuit only if the range hood is cord-connected to a receptacle.

If the range hood is direct-connected wiring, then it can be on a shared circuit.

http://www.qis-tx.com/newsletter.0507.asp


The manufacturer's install instruction indicates a cord connection.

Although, can I still do a direct-connection, so I don't have to add yet another dedicated (individual) circuit?

As I'm running out of panel circuits right now.
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Old 02-26-2013, 03:11 PM   #19
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There is absolutely no need for a separate 20 Amp circuit for any of these appliances in this case.
Why does it seem like most of the electricians here are against over-wiring. I understand in a bid situation trying to be as competitive as possible.

But if I am building or remodeling and want to put each appliance on a separate 20 amp circuit, whether needed or not, why does there seem to be some resistance to this?

Not criticizing, just wondering.
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Old 02-26-2013, 03:28 PM   #20
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Kitchen appliances and NEC requirements


Doing all those individual circuits would be like putting a Corvette engine in a Volkswagen. Both will work but there is no need for such overkill. There would be no benefit for the extra expense or panel space used.
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Old 02-26-2013, 05:03 PM   #21
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Kitchen appliances and NEC requirements


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Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
Doing all those individual circuits would be like putting a Corvette engine in a Volkswagen. Both will work but there is no need for such overkill. There would be no benefit for the extra expense or panel space used.
Or.....like putting a 5.7L fuel injected SBC engine in my 84 CJ jeep?

Not that I needed it....but I 'wanted' it....it means that I can climb just about any hill that I want....

And in my kitchen....it means my wife can run the microwave while boiling water with an electric kettle....while running the dishwasher....while the vent hood fan and light is on.....and slap in a few slices of toast into the toaster.....and I can blend up a nice batch of margaritas....and I don't have to worry about any breakers tripping....

It also means I can isolate a problem a lot easier......since I'm not running 20 devices off one breaker....

I know, I don't need that many breakers....but it's my house....so I 'want' that many breakers....
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Old 02-26-2013, 05:55 PM   #22
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Kitchen appliances and NEC requirements


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Originally Posted by herdfan View Post
Why does it seem like most of the electricians here are against over-wiring. I understand in a bid situation trying to be as competitive as possible.

But if I am building or remodeling and want to put each appliance on a separate 20 amp circuit, whether needed or not, why does there seem to be some resistance to this?

Not criticizing, just wondering.
We do all kitchens in spec houses and apartments like this or very similar to it:
Fridge /micro - 20 amp same circuit
Disposal/ dish - 20 amp. Dish is corded, recep is half switched shared.
2 counter circuits - 20 amp
Range varies depending on specs
Hood varies depending on specs

I don't feel we underwire at all. These are bid jobs.
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Old 02-26-2013, 09:31 PM   #23
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Kitchen appliances and NEC requirements


Main thing for me now -- I'm running out of slots in the panel (it's a really old style 100A non-class CTL Square D QO load center...), that's where the stress is (unless I redo the main panel...).

There're two slots still occupied from the currently unused 50A breaker for an electric range in the panel.

Since I have a gas range now, perhaps I'd just pull out that unused breaker so I can free up some space in the panel for this dedicated circuit required for the range hood (unless I change to a direct-connect...). Can I change to a direct-connect (manufacturer asks for a corded connection)?

Last edited by joemc3; 02-27-2013 at 12:19 AM.
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Old 03-10-2013, 12:04 PM   #24
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Kitchen appliances and NEC requirements


A specific question on the electrical of the dishwasher.

The label states 5.5 Amp for the motor, 6 Amp for the heater element, and MAX LOAD as 11 Amp.

My guess is that the motor is not running during the dry cycle, so the MAX LOAD would only be for the max current draw for either the motor or the heater --but not BOTH.


Am I correct in my guess, or am I missing something in the calculation?
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Old 03-10-2013, 12:07 PM   #25
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Kitchen appliances and NEC requirements


You must size the circuit according to the max load. This dishwasher will require its own circuit.
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Old 03-10-2013, 02:39 PM   #26
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Kitchen appliances and NEC requirements


Refrigerators usually do fine being on one of the kitchen appliance circuits....that is unless you're running the microwave, toaster, and fridge all at once.

I'm going to stay out of the dishwasher/disposal argument. I will tell you that dishwashers cannot be on one of the kitchen appliance circuits.
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Old 03-10-2013, 05:41 PM   #27
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Kitchen appliances and NEC requirements


It's not a question on which circuit to hook up the dishwasher to.


I'm trying to understand the actual load during the use of the dishwasher.


What I'm trying to confirm is --

if the MAX LOAD (11Amp) can actually happen during either the cleaning cycle (motor) OR the dry cycle (heater), and the mechanics behind it.


Perhaps I can pick up a watt meter to monitor the cycle to observe it, but if someone has better understanding of the dishwasher's electrical usage during the whole cycle I'd like to understand it.
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Old 03-10-2013, 05:52 PM   #28
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Kitchen appliances and NEC requirements


Yes, both can run at the same time. That is why the unit states Max load of 11 Amps.
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Old 04-07-2013, 03:03 AM   #29
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Kitchen appliances and NEC requirements


Both the disposal and the dishwasher are fastened in place, but are also cord-and-plug connected.

The total Amp rating would be 6A + 11A = 17A.


Does this violate [210.21(B)(2)] when they are served by a single 20A circuit (no other load):

"If a branch circuit supplies two or more receptacles, the total cord-and-plug connected load must not exceed 80% of the receptacle rating."


There is a single duplex receptacle that serves these two loads. Is it considered two receptacles?

Last edited by joemc3; 04-07-2013 at 03:08 AM.
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Old 04-07-2013, 04:46 AM   #30
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Kitchen appliances and NEC requirements


Quote:
Originally Posted by joemc3 View Post
Both the disposal and the dishwasher are fastened in place, but are also cord-and-plug connected.

The total Amp rating would be 6A + 11A = 17A.


Does this violate [210.21(B)(2)] when they are served by a single 20A circuit (no other load):

"If a branch circuit supplies two or more receptacles, the total cord-and-plug connected load must not exceed 80% of the receptacle rating."


There is a single duplex receptacle that serves these two loads. Is it considered two receptacles?
A duplex receptacle is two receptacles.

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