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Old 05-31-2012, 08:52 PM   #16
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Kiln wiring three phase


Found one for 500 that is close. 600v for the hv and lv is 208/120. Also says 75kva. How close is this to 100% power

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Old 05-31-2012, 10:48 PM   #17
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Kiln wiring three phase


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Found one for 500 that is close. 600v for the hv and lv is 208/120. Also says 75kva. How close is this to 100% power
Nope, won't work. You need a 240V delta primary, 600V delta or 347/600V Y secondary. If you can find a used transformer for cheap that will work, and if your existing panel can handle the load, then you could do it. However, I would not expect to find the right transformer at a reasonable price.

It might be possible to re-wire the elements in the kiln to work with your supply. It depends on how the individual elements are configured. Many high-power heating devices use a bunch of smaller elements, and are reconfigurable for different voltages and phase configurations by rewiring the elements. However, I don't think this project is within your skill range. In fact, this entire installation is probably not something you should be doing. This is clearly commercial work, which generally must be performed by a licensed electrician. Also, higher line voltages like 277 and 347V are very dangerous, and transformers require a professional level of knowledge to install safely.
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Old 05-31-2012, 11:04 PM   #18
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Kiln wiring three phase


I'm going to have to recommend you find a local licensed electrician to assist you with this. 600v is very dangerous, if anything is done wrong.
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Old 06-01-2012, 12:01 AM   #19
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Kiln wiring three phase


I appreciate the help very much as well as the recommendations per safety reasons. I really just needed the info to see what my options are with this kiln. It doesn't need to run at 100% power but I would like it to heat faster than it does right now. Thanks again.
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Old 06-01-2012, 12:18 AM   #20
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Kiln wiring three phase


There is couple thing it kinda show semi red flag half way up so let me ask you a basic question here.

A) What size service ( main breaker ) you have in your place ?

B) What voltage and phase you have in there ?( not for the kiln but for whole system )

If not sure you can post a photo otherwise a electrician can asssit you on this one.

However if you have single phase service you will denfitally need more than just a 200 amp service due your kiln size is pretty huge but if three phase it depending on main breaker rating / voltage you have there as I posted the question above.

Merci,
Marc

Note : normally three phase system is generally best done by electrician due can get tricky with connection if not heeded on that.
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Old 06-05-2012, 11:05 AM   #21
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Kiln wiring three phase


Would a 240v pri 575y/332v be close enough to full juice?
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Old 06-05-2012, 11:14 AM   #22
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Kiln wiring three phase


The subpanel I have is 240 3phase more than 200 amps
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Old 06-05-2012, 02:17 PM   #23
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Kiln wiring three phase


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Would a 240v pri 575y/332v be close enough to full juice?
As long as it's rated at more than 47 KVA it'll work for the kiln. The difference between 575 and 600 is too small to matter.

Even though it's technically not completely correct, a 45 KVA would work if it was fan cooled and installed in a fairly cool environment.

Dry-type transformers are almost always rated for installation in still air at 104F.

Most dry-type substation transformers I work with have two KVA ratings, one for AA (atmospheric aspiration) and a higher one for FA (forced aspiration).

Just last week, I added a new feeder to a switchgear that was fed from a dry-type transformer that was rated 1500 KVA AA and 2000 KVA FA.

Rob
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Old 06-05-2012, 02:24 PM   #24
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Kiln wiring three phase


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The subpanel I have is 240 3phase more than 200 amps
47 KVA @ 240 3 = 113 amps.

There'll be some loss in the transformer, but not very much.

If you're driving a 600 volt kiln with 575, the actual current will be a bit less.

Using the transformer described above, the 240 volt current will be somewhere around 100 - 115 amps, depending mostly on exactly what voltage the 240 runs at.

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Old 06-05-2012, 03:40 PM   #25
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Kiln wiring three phase


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The subpanel I have is 240 3phase more than 200 amps
You are very likely to overload your panel or the service. The kiln will draw well over 100A equally on all three phases. If you have any other heavy loads, you'll exceed 200A pretty easily. Perhaps more importantly, your service appears to be 120/240V high leg delta. It may be supplied by only two transformers, or possibly three, Either way, the power company's transformers are not sized for heavy 3-phase loads. They are sized for heavy 120/240V loads on one transformer, and a small amount of additional 3-phase load. This is probably going to roast their transformer bank.
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Old 06-05-2012, 04:49 PM   #26
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Kiln wiring three phase


I have get access to the main panel later, but this is in an industrial building with many bays. Luckily I'm the only one that uses electricity. Shouldn't the transformer only draw 180 amps? Another option I am considering is only going up to 480v which would allow the kiln to run at 64%. Any thoughts?
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Old 06-05-2012, 07:58 PM   #27
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Kiln wiring three phase


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Originally Posted by Torchwork View Post
I have get access to the main panel later, but this is in an industrial building with many bays. Luckily I'm the only one that uses electricity. Shouldn't the transformer only draw 180 amps? Another option I am considering is only going up to 480v which would allow the kiln to run at 64%. Any thoughts?
180A? It should be 113A, plus whatever the losses in the transformer are. Although I think the nameplate says the load on each phase is not completely balanced, so one phase might be a bit more. If there are any other substantial loads on the panel, you're likely to overload it. More importantly, like I said, you're likely going to overload the high leg of your service since it was never intended to supply such a large 3-phase load.

Edit: You should have two phases running 125A and one phase at 108A, plus transformer losses.

Last edited by mpoulton; 06-05-2012 at 08:01 PM.
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Old 06-05-2012, 09:46 PM   #28
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Kiln wiring three phase


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Originally Posted by Torchwork View Post
I have get access to the main panel later, but this is in an industrial building with many bays. Luckily I'm the only one that uses electricity. Shouldn't the transformer only draw 180 amps? Another option I am considering is only going up to 480v which would allow the kiln to run at 64%. Any thoughts?
Whether 480 will work or not depends on whether the kiln will get hot enough with the reduced amount of heat.

If you do go 480, a 45 KVA transformer will be fine.

Just for info, it doesn't matter if the transformer is 240 primary or 240 secondary, any transformer this size can be fed either way.

The 480 or 600 volt side can be either wye or delta. There's a slight difference in how it's connected, but either one will work.

Rob
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Old 06-05-2012, 09:50 PM   #29
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Kiln wiring three phase


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180A? It should be 113A, plus whatever the losses in the transformer are. Although I think the nameplate says the load on each phase is not completely balanced, so one phase might be a bit more. If there are any other substantial loads on the panel, you're likely to overload it. More importantly, like I said, you're likely going to overload the high leg of your service since it was never intended to supply such a large 3-phase load.

Edit: You should have two phases running 125A and one phase at 108A, plus transformer losses.
I don't understand how a balanced 3 load can result in unbalanced current in the transformer feed.

I'm pretty sure (as in pretty much positive) that a balanced 3 load will result in balanced current in all parts of the circuit, assuming balanced voltages and phase angles.

I'd be really interested in knowing where these figures came from.

Rob
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Old 06-05-2012, 11:20 PM   #30
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Kiln wiring three phase


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I don't understand how a balanced 3 load can result in unbalanced current in the transformer feed.

I'm pretty sure (as in pretty much positive) that a balanced 3 load will result in balanced current in all parts of the circuit, assuming balanced voltages and phase angles.

I'd be really interested in knowing where these figures came from.
It's not a balanced load. Take a look at the nameplate photo he posted above. It says 50/43/50A.

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