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Old 07-22-2012, 10:07 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by k_buz View Post
Current codes would say that those would need AFCI protection, but that didn't take affect until 2008 or so.

Before that, no protection necessary...AFCI or GFI.
K....is it not just AFIC only for a bedroom?

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Old 07-22-2012, 10:08 PM   #77
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K....is it not just AFIC only for a bedroom?
Depends on the code cycle...
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Old 07-22-2012, 10:19 PM   #78
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2005 was simply bedrooms

2008/2011 include any recepts not GFI protected (basically)

2014 (rumored) to include lighting

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(A) Dwelling Units. All 120-volt, single phase, 15- and
20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets or devices installed
in dwelling unit kitchens, family rooms, dining
rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms,
sunrooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways, laundry areas,
or similar rooms or areas shall be protected as described
by (1), (2), (3), or (4).[ROP 280, ROP 282a,
ROP 285]
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Old 07-22-2012, 10:36 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by k_buz View Post
2005 was simply bedrooms

2008/2011 include any recepts not GFI protected (basically)

2014 (rumored) to include lighting
Lighting outlets were always required to be AFCI.. not sure why they had to add 'device' to the requirement. Guess they want to sell as many AFCI's as possible.

Seems to me they added 'device' to clarify that they want switches AFCI protected as well, since they don't fall under the definition of 'outlet'

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Old 07-22-2012, 10:40 PM   #80
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Lighting outlets were always required to be AFCI.. not sure why they had to add 'device' to the requirement. Guess they want to sell as many AFCI's as possible.

So...if i'm plugging in 4 t12 florescent fixtures on my ceiling of my shop.....they're supposed to be AFCI?
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Old 07-22-2012, 10:42 PM   #81
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So...if i'm plugging in 4 t12 florescent fixtures on my ceiling of my shop.....they're supposed to be AFCI?
Your shop would most likely not be a dwelling unit. Also, it depends on what code cycle your state is on.
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Old 07-22-2012, 10:44 PM   #82
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K....is it not just AFIC only for a bedroom?
Here is the 2005 NEC requirement of AFCI's... The graphic is incorrect though, because switches are not 'outlets' by definition, which I think is what they are trying to change in the 2014 by adding 'device' to the requirement.


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Old 07-22-2012, 10:47 PM   #83
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My codebook is clear. Any wall finished with drywall, panelling. So on and so forth to within 450mm of the floor is a finished wall. I guess the ceiling doesn't matter so much. Wow that stinks about the afci's. I guess its only a matter of time before we get stuck with them outside the bedroom too.
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Old 07-22-2012, 10:53 PM   #84
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. Wow that stinks about the afci's. I guess its only a matter of time before we get stuck with them outside the bedroom too.
Some states are smart enough not to fall victim and incur extra expenses on home owners. Connecticut is one of those states, hence why were still on the 2005, and no rumors of taking on the 2014...
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Old 07-23-2012, 06:59 AM   #85
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I always cut them off when I find them. They are good for initial organizing, when making up the panel...when left loose, but they ought to be cut off at the end - not tightened, and left.
(And inductive heating is a real issue).

How would a tie-wrap cause inductive heating??

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Old 07-23-2012, 09:16 AM   #86
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How would a tie-wrap cause inductive heating??

Mark
Because the wires are bound together so tightly, the inner wires can't get rid of their heat....similar reason we have max fill limits for conduit....
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Old 07-23-2012, 10:20 AM   #87
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Because the wires are bound together so tightly, the inner wires can't get rid of their heat....similar reason we have max fill limits for conduit....

I agree that bundling conductors closely together makes them run hotter because it impedes heat dissipation, but that has nothing to do with induction.

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Old 07-23-2012, 12:17 PM   #88
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Let's no forget that you would have to 'bundle' for more than 24" to meet the definition of bundling...
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Old 07-27-2012, 10:06 AM   #89
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Ok......this look better? I know there's two knockouts in the top right that need to be filled....anything else?
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Old 07-27-2012, 10:46 AM   #90
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Much better.....very nice in fact.....

I think you will agree that it will now be easier to work in that panel than the previous version....

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