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Old 07-22-2012, 03:12 PM   #46
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I know this gets passed by a lot of inspections, but the NM cables entering the back of the cabinet is a code violation...

That is an exterior meter main panel (very common in my area where basements are a rare exception) and I see this method all the time. There really is no other practical way to get the cables into the panel.

Basements in my area are called swimming pools

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Old 07-22-2012, 03:32 PM   #47
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That is an exterior meter main panel (very common in my area where basements are a rare exception) and I see this method all the time. There really is no other practical way to get the cables into the panel.
You could easily install a trough and have each cable enter that, then nipple to the panel. I think that would be very practical.


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Basements in my area are called swimming pools
I've seen some like that around here, too.
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Old 07-22-2012, 04:04 PM   #48
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I know this gets passed by a lot of inspections, but the NM cables entering the back of the cabinet is a code violation...
Just our of curiosity.....where does it reference that in the NEC? And why would they provide knockouts in the back?

Like rj said....no other way to do it.

The panel is external....and this is a 2C shear wall....so I have a very strict limit on the number of holes and size. In fact, once all the wiring is done, I have to nail a sheet of OSB on the other side....which will block off all future access to the wireing....which is one of the reasons for the conduit. It handles all the wiring to the existing part of the house...but I have 2 boxes in 2 different parts of the crawl space so I can pull more wire in the future if need be.
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Old 07-22-2012, 04:11 PM   #49
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Just our of curiosity.....where does it reference that in the NEC?
312.5(C) Cables. Where cable is used, each cable shall be secured to the cabinet, cutout box, or meter socket enclosure.

Exception: Cables with entirely nonmetallic sheaths shall be permitted to enter the top of a surface-mounted enclo- sure through one or more nonflexible raceways not less than 450 mm (18 in.) and not more than 3.0 m (10 ft) in length, provided all of the following conditions are met:

(a) Each cable is fastened within 300 mm (12 in.), measured along the sheath, of the outer end of the raceway.
(b) The raceway extends directly above the enclosure
and does not penetrate a structural ceiling.
(c) A fitting is provided on each end of the raceway to
protect the cable(s) from abrasion and the fittings remain accessible after installation.
(d) The raceway is sealed or plugged at the outer end using approved means so as to prevent access to the enclo- sure through the raceway.
(e) The cable sheath is continuous through the race- way and extends into the enclosure beyond the fitting not less than 6 mm (1⁄4 in.).
(f) The raceway is fastened at its outer end and at other points in accordance with the applicable article.
(g) Where installed as conduit or tubing, the allowable cable fill does not exceed that permitted for complete con- duit or tubing systems by Table 1 of Chapter 9 of this Code and all applicable notes thereto.
FPN: See Table 1 in Chapter 9, including Note 9, for al- lowable cable fill in circular raceways. See 310.15(B)(2)(a) for required ampacity reductions for multiple cables in- stalled in a common raceway.


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And why would they provide knockouts in the back?
The issue is using ONE knockout and stuffing all the NM through it.


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Like rj said....no other way to do it.
I posted an alternative method. Hell, you could use UF and enter the bottom of the meter/main.... Or just use raceways and pull THHN to j-boxes....


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The panel is external....and this is a 2C shear wall....so I have a very strict limit on the number of holes and size. In fact, once all the wiring is done, I have to nail a sheet of OSB on the other side....which will block off all future access to the wireing....which is one of the reasons for the conduit. It handles all the wiring to the existing part of the house...but I have 2 boxes in 2 different parts of the crawl space so I can pull more wire in the future if need be.
Install the panel on the interior, I really don't care how you do it, but what I'm saying is its still a violation by the NEC... and it blindly gets overlooked by the inspector.

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Old 07-22-2012, 04:23 PM   #50
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Thanks for posting that....

Can't enter in through the top. This panel has blocks that prevent anything other than the service cables coming in the top.

I suspect the inspector will not complain. I already had a few wires in the panel when he inspected it for the first time so I could get the service moved over.

At least I have the chase nipples in there....and the NM is secured within 12" before it enters the box.....I guess I could build a raceway on the backside....if he dings me on it....but I doubt he will.
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Old 07-22-2012, 04:27 PM   #51
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Thanks for posting that....

Can't enter in through the top. This panel has blocks that prevent anything other than the service cables coming in the top.

I suspect the inspector will not complain. I already had a few wires in the panel when he inspected it for the first time so I could get the service moved over.

At least I have the chase nipples in there....and the NM is secured within 12" before it enters the box.....I guess I could build a raceway on the backside....if he dings me on it....but I doubt he will.
Don't worry, its a common install, I'm just pointing out its an overlooked violation in your kind of install, if the state feels its fine they should have an amendment for it... otherwise the inspector is just not doing his job.

I've seen pictures of installs where the contractor just uses 2" snap in bushings and stuffs all the NMs through it... Its very typical out west and people just do it, because that's how its done.

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Old 07-22-2012, 05:11 PM   #52
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I've seen some like that around here, too.
I just noticed you are from Litchfield CT, I lived in CT until 14 years ago (Berlin and Southington). I was just there last week and had breakfast with guys I used to work with (SNET) at Scaperelli's on Migeon Ave in Torrington.

Do you know Paul Minor from Bristol. He's the guy with Daisy the pot bellied pig who travels around giving reading programs to kids. Another ex SNET guy I worked with. Had dinner with he and his wife in Burlington.

Small world.
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Old 07-22-2012, 05:18 PM   #53
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Stickboy.,

I know you mention about the conductors comming in the back of the panel and I know it common for southwest area to do that all the time and I know few other area done as well as long the inspector understand the layout of doing the homeruns plus few other circuits.

I have done the same thing in few homes over here in France we ran them in the back as well.

Merci,
Marc
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Old 07-22-2012, 05:20 PM   #54
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I just noticed you are from Litchfield CT, I lived in CT until 14 years ago (Berlin and Southington). I was just there last week and had breakfast with guys I used to work with (SNET) at Scaperelli's on Migeon Ave in Torrington.

Do you know Paul Minor from Bristol. He's the guy with Daisy the pot bellied pig who travels around giving reading programs to kids. Another ex SNET guy I worked with. Had dinner with he and his wife in Burlington.

Small world.
I like Scaperelli's, I don't actually know Paul Minor, but the name sounds familiar, and I used to work for a contractor out in Southington, actually Plantsville, but close enough.

Do you know Jay Elwood? He's an Ex SNET guy...
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Old 07-22-2012, 06:30 PM   #55
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Don't know Jay but after 14 years retired I have senior moments often. I was the SNET central office maintenance manager out of Waterbury for many years. Knew most of the inside workers-outside not so much.
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Old 07-22-2012, 06:38 PM   #56
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Don't know Jay but after 14 years retired I have senior moments often. I was the SNET central office maintenance manager out of Waterbury for many years. Knew most of the inside workers-outside not so much.
Im not sure what area he worked out of to be honest... and Ah, the joys of Waterbury.
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Old 07-22-2012, 09:09 PM   #57
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Ok......question....so i've noticed in a number of threads there seems to be some disdain towards NM........any reason why?
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Old 07-22-2012, 09:11 PM   #58
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Ok......question....so i've noticed in a number of threads there seems to be some disdain towards NM........any reason why?
????? How so?
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Old 07-22-2012, 09:16 PM   #59
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well i've read back through some posts, some of which are quite old......and there were a few (i don't recall the post titles, but they were quite old anyhow) where people were running NM and it was instead "suggested" that they didn't run NM in interior areas and ran conduit instead....

I assumed that NM was the standard, as it is around here.....i've been in hundreds of homes (real estate broker) and I don't think i've ever seen one wired with anything but a vast majority of NM......just wondering if its different in different regions of the country and world?
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Old 07-22-2012, 09:16 PM   #60
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Ok......question....so i've noticed in a number of threads there seems to be some disdain towards NM........any reason why?
I certainly dont, I live and die by the stuff.

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