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Old 07-06-2009, 10:39 PM   #1
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Is a junction box required?


We are remodeling our bathroom. The new vanity sits in a different spot than the old. So, the overhead lights are in a different place. I'm building a fur down box out of cabinet grade plywood that will provide a new mounting spot for the lights over the vanity mirror.

With that said, the wiring is not long enough to reach the new electrical box. Should I put in a junction box inside the fur down so I can run an additional 18 inches or so to the new light connection?

Thanks
Mike

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Old 07-06-2009, 10:56 PM   #2
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Is a junction box required?


If you will be adding on to the wire a junction box is required & must be accesible

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Old 07-06-2009, 10:58 PM   #3
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Is a junction box required?


Yes,But j-box has to be accessible -Would you have access the JB from the other side of the wall? Or is it a exterior wall.
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Old 07-06-2009, 10:58 PM   #4
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Is a junction box required?


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Originally Posted by MT Stringer View Post
.... Should I put in a junction box inside the fur down so I can run an additional 18 inches or so to the new light connection?
Yes.
You can't make the connection to the new Light hanging out in space
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Old 07-06-2009, 10:59 PM   #5
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Is a junction box required?


OK. Thanks Dave and everybody else. I forgot about being accessible. It won't be accessible, so I think I will wait and let the electrician take care of it. He should be able to pull the wire up into the attic (YUCK!), install the box up there and bring new wire down to the new mounting spot.

I can go ahead and install the fur down box and have it ready to wire up.

Mike

Last edited by MT Stringer; 07-06-2009 at 11:03 PM.
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Old 07-07-2009, 01:12 AM   #6
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Is a junction box required?


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Originally Posted by 300zx View Post
Yes,But j-box has to be accessible -Would you have access the JB from the other side of the wall? Or is it a exterior wall.
Could someone explain this caveat? I actually have a couple of covered metal j-boxes in my new bathrooms' walls where I changed single overhead vanity lamps to two side mounted sconces. Fortunately I haven't finished the walls yet though so I could open them up again and move the junctions to the attic if I absolutely have to.

Is there actually a chance of failure if the wires are well twisted together and then wire nutted?
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Old 07-07-2009, 02:07 AM   #7
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Is a junction box required?


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Originally Posted by everyman View Post
Could someone explain this caveat? I actually have a couple of covered metal j-boxes in my new bathrooms' walls where I changed single overhead vanity lamps to two side mounted sconces. Fortunately I haven't finished the walls yet though so I could open them up again and move the junctions to the attic if I absolutely have to.

Is there actually a chance of failure if the wires are well twisted together and then wire nutted?
Sure, every splice is a potential failure point. What would happen if you moved into that house after the work was done that you are doing, and one of the junctions failed? You might spend buckets of money trying to solve a problem that could have been found by peaking into the attic and finding a junction box. If you're lucky enough to be able to locate it in the attic. Maybe it's on the first floor of a house with hardwood floors above. You either rip up the floors, or tear down the ceiling. On the other hand, you might simply put a junction box in an accessible locale, like that closet on the other side of the wall, or run all new wire while you have the chance.

You bury a splice, you're a glutton for punishment.
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Old 07-07-2009, 06:12 PM   #8
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Is a junction box required?


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Originally Posted by MT Stringer View Post
........pull the wire up into the attic (YUCK!), install the box up there and bring new wire down to the new mounting spot...
Mike is solving his inaccessible box problem by installing an intermediate box in the attic, which is the perfect solution in his case.

If an intermediate box solution was a big deal, I would go for a conduit solution:
  • Remove or disable the original Romex run
  • Install FMC from the previous, to the new box
  • Pull in new conductors
http://www.hardwareandtools.com/invt/u568053
.
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Is a junction box required?-schematic-fmc-example.jpg  
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Last edited by PaliBob; 07-07-2009 at 06:14 PM. Reason: sp
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Old 07-07-2009, 07:37 PM   #9
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Is a junction box required?


Quote:
Is there actually a chance of failure if the wires are well twisted together and then wire nutted?
1. The chance of failure goes up dramatically according to the level of experience. Handymen and homeowners are terrible at installing wirenuts.

2. The cable in a circuit goes from point A to B to C, and so forth. When troubleshooting any part of a circuit, you must be able to see and eliminate all junctions as posible failure points.

3. I will occaisionally bend the accesible rule if I am simply extending ONE cable. I am capable of making a 100% bulletproof connection because I have done it tens of thousands of times. I use the proper tools to strip the wire and the proper techniques to make the splices. I know exactly what to do.

4. That said, even though I am also cabable of making a 3 or 4 cable bulletproof splice, I won't do it because there may be an unrelated failure in another portion of that circuit and whoever troubleshoots it will be confused about my missing splices.

Last edited by 220/221; 07-07-2009 at 07:41 PM.
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Old 07-08-2009, 12:40 AM   #10
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Is a junction box required?


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I am capable of making a 100% bulletproof connection because I have done it tens of thousands of times. I use the proper tools to strip the wire and the proper techniques to make the splices. I know exactly what to do.
Okay Mr Wire Nut Pants what's the secret? This poor homeowner needs to know

Does it resemble this at all?

1. Carefully strip the wire so as not to nick it. Strip back 1/4" more than you need.
2. Using linesman pliers, twist the wires clockwise, and make sure they are twisting around helically rather than one twisting around the other leaving one straight.
3. Put an extra few turns on the wires going back an inch or two from the bare splice.
4. Cut the end of the splice square so that all naked wire is buried in the nut.
5. Screw the nut on and keep turning it until it starts to twist the wires more.
6. Flip the breaker, and smell for smoke

Close?
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Old 07-08-2009, 01:01 AM   #11
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Is a junction box required?


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Originally Posted by everyman View Post
Okay Mr Wire Nut Pants what's the secret? This poor homeowner needs to know

Does it resemble this at all?

1. Carefully strip the wire so as not to nick it. Strip back 1/4" more than you need.
2. Using linesman pliers, twist the wires clockwise, and make sure they are twisting around helically rather than one twisting around the other leaving one straight.
3. Put an extra few turns on the wires going back an inch or two from the bare splice.
4. Cut the end of the splice square so that all naked wire is buried in the nut.
5. Screw the nut on and keep turning it until it starts to twist the wires more.
6. Flip the breaker, and smell for smoke

Close?
Almost there... you forgot step #7: Make sure the junction box is accessible.

There are a couple of rules that can be bent a little with no ill effects. This one is rarely one of them. I have pulled my hair out hunting down buried splices, very few other "slightly bent" rules have caused me such headache.
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Old 07-08-2009, 02:24 AM   #12
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Is a junction box required?


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Originally Posted by everyman View Post
Okay Mr Wire Nut Pants......
Don't get carried away with your knowledge base. You started >25% of your Posts with Questions.

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Last edited by PaliBob; 07-08-2009 at 02:28 AM. Reason: sp
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Old 07-08-2009, 02:29 AM   #13
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Is a junction box required?


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Originally Posted by PaliBob View Post
Don't get carried away with your knowledge base. You started >25% of your Posts with Questions.

Well this was a question too, yes? 220/221 just exuded so much confidence I was hoping some of the knowledge might drip off on me

Last edited by everyman; 07-08-2009 at 02:33 AM.
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Old 07-08-2009, 02:35 AM   #14
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Is a junction box required?


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Almost there... you forgot step #7: Make sure the junction box is accessible.
Grrr, I can see that I'm going to made to go up into my attic again. You know, it's like 130 degrees up there
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Old 07-08-2009, 12:04 PM   #15
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Is a junction box required?


Quote:
Originally Posted by 220/221 View Post
3. I will occaisionally bend the accesible rule if I am simply extending ONE cable. I am capable of making a 100% bulletproof connection because I have done it tens of thousands of times. I use the proper tools to strip the wire and the proper techniques to make the splices. I know exactly what to do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by everyman View Post
Okay Mr Wire Nut Pants what's the secret? This poor homeowner needs to know

Does it resemble this at all?

1. Carefully strip the wire so as not to nick it. Strip back 1/4" more than you need.
2. Using linesman pliers, twist the wires clockwise, and make sure they are twisting around helically rather than one twisting around the other leaving one straight.
3. Put an extra few turns on the wires going back an inch or two from the bare splice.
4. Cut the end of the splice square so that all naked wire is buried in the nut.
5. Screw the nut on and keep turning it until it starts to twist the wires more.
6. Flip the breaker, and smell for smoke

Close?
Don't encourage him
His head barely fits thru doorways as it is

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