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-   -   Jumping from main panel to sub-panel (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/jumping-main-panel-sub-panel-27215/)

teamjnz 09-22-2008 02:52 PM

Jumping from main panel to sub-panel
 
3 Attachment(s)
Hello friends,

New to DYI forum.
I built my house and we now live in it. What an accomplishment. Now I need more power in my garage. When I built it I installed 200A sub-panel for the house and a 125A sub-panel for the garage. The main is 400A. I planned on setting up shop in the garage and now it is time and I need more power than I thought.

I have an electrical question so here it goes.
The 400A panel I installed has 2 200A breakers. (I attached pictures) In picture 1 you see both 200A breakers. The right side breaker is power to the sub-panel for the house. The breaker on the left is for other stuff like the well pump and garage power. I have a 125A sub-panel in the garage, but I need 125A service to run a phase converter. As you can see in picture 2 there are breakers which one of them is a 125A breaker that feed the 125A sub-panel in the garage, picture 3. Not enough power for the converter and wall outlets.

What I want to do is replace the aluminum 125A feed with 2-O copper. I am thinking to attach the 2-O wire with split nuts to jump from the leads going from the 200A breaker to the switch panel and running it into the garage 125 panel. Not attaching to the 125 panel but through it to a junction box. From the junction box, running a lead to the converter and another lead back to the 125A sub-panel. This way I have enough power to run the converter and still have power in the garage outlets.

I am looking for comments, safety concerns and suggestions. I do want to keep my costs down for obvious reasons.

Thanks,
teamjnz

J. V. 09-22-2008 03:11 PM

Do you see all the spare slots in your service panel? Left side. Use two slots for another 125 amp breaker and run it to a new larger sub panel in the garage, or run it to a disconnect at the converter.

Do not splice anything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



You have enormous capability with a 400 amp service.

Termite 09-22-2008 03:27 PM

Agreed! A second feeder and sub panel in the garage would be the way to go.

teamjnz 09-22-2008 03:47 PM

Thanks guys... I was thinking about this 2nd feeder option but I don't know if I can get all those wires through a 2" conduit.

teamjnz

chris75 09-22-2008 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thekctermite (Post 160298)
Agreed! A second feeder and sub panel in the garage would be the way to go.


Not going to happen, your only allowed 1 feeder per structure. I dont know if the garage is attatched to the house or not, but if it is, its already in violation, if its seperate then its good for now,(other than the missing required disconnect :icon_rolleyes:) but he cannot just run a 2nd feeder to the building.

I see some serious issues already.

[EDIT] is the garage attatched to the structure?

Termite 09-22-2008 07:43 PM

I'm unaware of the "one feeder per structure" rule. I'll have to look that one up for sure!

I've seen hundreds of setups in a number of cities in this area that have 400 amp services and a number of subpanels throughout the house...And subsequently a number of feeders off of the main disconnecting means. Are you telling me they're wrong?

chris75 09-22-2008 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thekctermite (Post 160375)
I'm unaware of the "one feeder per structure" rule. I'll have to look that one up for sure!

I've seen hundreds of setups in a number of cities in this area that have 400 amp services and a number of subpanels throughout the house...And subsequently a number of feeders off of the main disconnecting means. Are you telling me they're wrong?


What I'm saying is that the service in the OP's picture is a pedestal service, so if you take a look at 225.30, each structure can only be served by one feeder, anything leaving that pedestal service is a feeder.

If that meter was attached to the house along with the garage then its all good.

chris75 09-22-2008 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thekctermite (Post 160375)
I'm unaware of the "one feeder per structure" rule. I'll have to look that one up for sure!

I've seen hundreds of setups in a number of cities in this area that have 400 amp services and a number of subpanels throughout the house...And subsequently a number of feeders off of the main disconnecting means. Are you telling me they're wrong?

It really depends on where the service disconnecting means is located.

theatretch85 09-22-2008 10:13 PM

Whats with all the orange cord hardwired into the bottom of the panel? Is that short black cord for an RV outlet? Also, where is the service neutral connected at? I see neutrals for the garage panel and the feed to the house, but no main neutral. Is this relying on the panel ground as the service neutral? All I see going into the meter side is the 2 heavy wires at the top of the panel, am I missing something here?

Also, I don't believe you will be able to find a 200 amp breaker that will plug into that panel as a "branch circuit". You might be able to find one as large as 150 amps, but in a quick search all I could find was 100 amp double pole.

Termite 09-22-2008 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris75 (Post 160381)
If that meter was attached to the house along with the garage then its all good.

I'm on board! Thanks for clarifying.

chris75 09-22-2008 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theatretch85 (Post 160425)
Whats with all the orange cord hardwired into the bottom of the panel? Is that short black cord for an RV outlet?

I was also very curious about that stuff, just afraid to ask. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by theatretch85 (Post 160425)
Also, where is the service neutral connected at? I see neutrals for the garage panel and the feed to the house, but no main neutral. Is this relying on the panel ground as the service neutral? All I see going into the meter side is the 2 heavy wires at the top of the panel, am I missing something here?

Another good question, I didnt even notice that, I thought the neutral bus just ran into the meter side of the can.

220/221 09-22-2008 11:19 PM

Quote:

I thought the neutral bus just ran into the meter side of the can.
It does. I just picked up this panel today. It's the flat bus running behind the breaker bus and goes thru into the meter side.


The biggest breaker you can put on there is 125A so you are kind of screwed.

Check Cutler Hammer for a lug kit that clips on to the bus like a breaker would. You would have to then of course run 3/0 copper to the garage panel.

theatretch85 09-22-2008 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 220/221 (Post 160447)
It does. I just picked up this panel today. It's the flat bus running behind the breaker bus and goes thru into the meter side.


The biggest breaker you can put on there is 125A so you are kind of screwed.

Check Cutler Hammer for a lug kit that clips on to the bus like a breaker would. You would have to then of course run 3/0 copper to the garage panel.

I kinda wondered if that was the case, the picture wasn't real clear if it was passing through the side wall of the consumer side of the panel.

I found a ebay seller selling a lot of 6 3 "Pole Lug Block", rated for 225 amps. Obviously you wouldn't need 6 of them, but this ebay link has some very good pictures of the lug block kit.

http://cgi.ebay.com/6-Cutler-Hammer-...21131011r22037

I am sure you can find it in a 200 amp 2 pole version, I just found this with a quick search online.

teamjnz 09-23-2008 05:39 AM

The orange cords are lines I wired in when I was building and used them for extension cords. They also were for the washer, dryer and refrigerator that we used in the shipping container that you don't see in the picture. The black one hanging is an RV plug for the trailer we lived in while building the house. They are no longer used and need to be removed.

The garage is attached and as for 2 feeders into 1 structure, I passed my electrical inspection with both feeder and 2 sub-panels. My power company will not bring a 3phase line into a residential building.

220/221 is correct, it runs through to the other side.

Question???

Can I run 2 feeder threw the same conduit to power 2 different sub-panels? If I remember correctly someone told me awhile ago that you can't. This is the main reason why I was thinking about splicing into the main feeder to the breaker bus. If I can get a 2pole 200A breaker this would solve my problem.

Thanks,
teamjnz

teamjnz 09-23-2008 05:48 AM

2 pole 200A breaker link
 

http://www.nextag.com/Cutler-Hammer-...71/prices-html

I found this breaker. How would I know if it would fit my breaker bus?

Also is it not advisable to connect a 200A feeder to a 125A sub-panel?

teamjnz


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