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Old 01-25-2010, 11:06 AM   #16
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J-B Weld to Mount Metal Box


Quote:
Originally Posted by hyunelan2 View Post
My Answer:

$ Self taping screws < $ JB Weld.
Experience with JB Weld > Experience with Self taping screws.

I don't know what I'm getting into trying to put a screw through an 1/8" thick steel plate. Sure, based on my experience, I can see how a screw could tap its own hole working with the thin sheet metal used in metal studs. But we're talking an 1/8" thick steel plate. You're not going to just push a screw against the steel and start turning with a screw driver. Seems like either a difficult job, or a job that requires special tools.

But JB Weld? Mix the black and white putty, apply it to clean surfaces, clamp the box to the post for 24 hours. Done.

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Old 01-25-2010, 11:09 AM   #17
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J-B Weld to Mount Metal Box


1/8" is a bit thick, but why in the world would you even try to use a screwdriver?

Drill.

I punched a few self tappers (bolt head, not screw) into metal to flush mount an electric box last night. Granted, it was probably only 1/16, not 1/8 thick, but it still only took a matter of seconds.
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Old 01-25-2010, 11:44 AM   #18
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J-B Weld to Mount Metal Box


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Originally Posted by hyunelan2 View Post
1/8" is a bit thick, but why in the world would you even try to use a screwdriver?

drill
Just exaggerating to make a point.

Sure you say "drill". But that still brings up more questions. For example, it seems like you would have to have something of a piolet hole. After all, no mater how sharp a point you have on a screw, you take a drill to it, and it's going to try to walk all over that steel. So it would seem that you need a piolet hole or some sort of initial dimple in the steel just to keep the screw from moving around. If you do a piolet hole, am I going to effectively ruin my drill bit? Do I buy special drill bits? What size drill bit?

Of course the thing we haven't even touched in the number of holes you have to drill. You need a minimum of two screws per box, and for my over all setup, I'm going to need at least 4 boxes (two posts I'm doing this to). And if you need to add a strap for the conduit becuase of length (not sure if I do, but likely will just for added durability), that's two more holes per post.
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Old 01-25-2010, 11:47 AM   #19
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J-B Weld to Mount Metal Box


If your self-tapper isn't sharp enough (or the metal is too hard) to make it's own little divot as you start the drill, you can use a hammer and a punch to make a small divot in the metal to keep the screw from walking.

I like to use larger-diameter self-tappers with bolt-heads on them. You can then put a socket on your drill and apply pressure without the screw falling off, as it might with a regular screw-head.

EDIT:

If you need/want to predrill, a single carbide bit should do the trick if your steel is hardened. If not, you can probably get by with just a high-speed steel bit.

Last edited by hyunelan2; 01-25-2010 at 11:50 AM.
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Old 01-25-2010, 01:40 PM   #20
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J-B Weld to Mount Metal Box


Quote:
Originally Posted by HooKooDooKu View Post
Experience with JB Weld > Experience with Self taping screws.

I don't know what I'm getting into trying to put a screw through an 1/8" thick steel plate. Sure, based on my experience, I can see how a screw could tap its own hole working with the thin sheet metal used in metal studs. But we're talking an 1/8" thick steel plate. You're not going to just push a screw against the steel and start turning with a screw driver. Seems like either a difficult job, or a job that requires special tools.

But JB Weld? Mix the black and white putty, apply it to clean surfaces, clamp the box to the post for 24 hours. Done.
tek-5 screws. Use a drill or better, a screw gun, a nut driver insert and spin the dang thing. They make them for up to 1/4" and maybe even 3/8" thick steel.

They are self drilling and self threading and work great. Having put in thousand of them into I-beams, steel building columns (round poles), and where ever else it was appropriate, I will unequivocally state: there is absolutely no reason to not do this properly.


JB Weld= craptastic work.

Tek screws= proffesionalism

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Old 01-25-2010, 02:31 PM   #21
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J-B Weld to Mount Metal Box


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Originally Posted by RegeSullivan View Post
I am not sure of the point being made in this thread but I want to understand better how boxes should be surface mounted. The code quoated above says "#1-SECURELY FASTEN OUTLET BOX IN POSITION & SUPPORT INDEPENDENT OF CONDUIT SYSTEM ". So if the glue or JB Weld is "secure" it would be allowed? A box screwed to a metal pole would not survive a hammer blow any better than some of the new adhesives currently available. So is there a standard for mounting boxes or is it purely up to the inspector. This also beings up the question of what is the box mounted to. Everyone has seen a switch mounted to duct work on a furnace at one time or another. How hard is it to yank a box off of sheet metal when those little self tapers are used. What about a box surface mounted on drywall? It would never survive a hammer blow.
a box that is properly mounted will take more than being smacked once with a hammer to knock it off,granted hitting it with a hammer is probably considered extreme but you dont want the box being ripped off the pull when youre moving furniture in the basement and hit it or when kids are rough housing and bump it just right.
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Old 01-25-2010, 02:33 PM   #22
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J-B Weld to Mount Metal Box


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Originally Posted by HooKooDooKu View Post
Yes, this is all a part of a DIY for finishing a basement (after all, this IS a DIY formum). If I was getting paid to do this, I should know building codes better.

As for why am I running conduit, the conduit is just for protecting the wire running down the pole. The circuit is in a garage and is mostly romex stapled to the side of floor joists. But I need to protect the wire to reach the switch I want to put on the pole. So I'll have a j-box at the top of the pole to make a romex to conduit transition, and then a handy box about mid-way down the pole to install the switch.
why not just run conduit above bottem of joist and loop romex into it?
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Old 01-25-2010, 03:04 PM   #23
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J-B Weld to Mount Metal Box


Quote:
Originally Posted by nap View Post
tek-5 screws. Use a drill or better, a screw gun, a nut driver insert and spin the dang thing. They make them for up to 1/4" and maybe even 3/8" thick steel.

They are self drilling and self threading and work great. Having put in thousand of them into I-beams, steel building columns (round poles), and where ever else it was appropriate, I will unequivocally state: there is absolutely no reason to not do this properly.


JB Weld= craptastic work.

Tek screws= proffesionalism

your stock is rising nap!
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Old 01-25-2010, 03:33 PM   #24
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J-B Weld to Mount Metal Box


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Originally Posted by plummen View Post
why not just run conduit above bottem of joist and loop romex into it?
Its a 4-way switch, so there is more to it than a single 14/2 Romex in the conduit.

My plan is to run 14/3 to the conduit box near the top of the pole, run four hots and one ground down the conduit, then continue the run of 14/3 out of the top box and on to the next 3-way/4-way switch in the circuit.
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Old 01-25-2010, 04:28 PM   #25
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J-B Weld to Mount Metal Box


Quote:
Originally Posted by HooKooDooKu View Post
Its a 4-way switch, so there is more to it than a single 14/2 Romex in the conduit.

My plan is to run 14/3 to the conduit box near the top of the pole, run four hots and one ground down the conduit, then continue the run of 14/3 out of the top box and on to the next 3-way/4-way switch in the circuit.
You aren't running NM in conduit are you? NM in conduit is very limited by the NEC.
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Old 01-25-2010, 04:34 PM   #26
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J-B Weld to Mount Metal Box


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Originally Posted by nap View Post
You aren't running NM in conduit are you? NM in conduit is very limited by the NEC.
Given that I'm going to use 1/2" conduit, I don't think there is physical room to run two pieces of NM in the conduit... at least not sheathed.

The only question there is whether it is ok to strip the sheath off of Romex and use that, or do you have to buy the individual THHN (or what ever that abbreviation is) wire. Seems like I've seen mixed responses to that question.

Last edited by HooKooDooKu; 01-25-2010 at 04:36 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 01-25-2010, 04:38 PM   #27
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J-B Weld to Mount Metal Box


Quote:
=HooKooDooKu;388972]Given that I'm going to use 1/2 conduit, I don't think there is physical room to run two pieces of NM in the conduit... at least not sheathed.
I just caught the tail end and did not go back to read.




Quote:
The only question there is whether it is ok to strip the sheath off of Romex and use that, or do you have to buy the individual THHN (or what ever that abbreviation is) wire. Seems like I've seen mixed responses to that question.[
the correct answer, without question is


NO.

It is absolutely not legal to strip the sheath from NM and use the individual concuctors.

outside you would use THWN (w for wet) inside THHN is common and typical (although there are literally dozens of types of insulation that is acceptable).

most common found wire is rated THHN/THWN and can be used as either.
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Old 01-25-2010, 09:17 PM   #28
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why couldnt you remove sheathing from outside of romex and slide the end of it down through the pipe into switch box? we do it all the time in basements with block walls and drywalled ceilings where you cant have a junction box in ceiling.2 pieces of 14/2 with sheathing removed from the part that is sleeved into pipe should cause no issues,just make sure to bond the ground wires in the box. no worse than sleeving homeruns into a service panel or am i missing something?
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Old 01-25-2010, 09:35 PM   #29
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J-B Weld to Mount Metal Box


Quote:
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why couldnt you remove sheathing from outside of romex and slide the end of it down through the pipe into switch box? we do it all the time in basements with block walls and drywalled ceilings where you cant have a junction box in ceiling.2 pieces of 14/2 with sheathing removed from the part that is sleeved into pipe should cause no issues,just make sure to bond the ground wires in the box. no worse than sleeving homeruns into a service panel or am i missing something?
because it is illegal to remove the sheath and use the conductors as individual conductors. Although as far as anybody is aware of, the inner conductors are THHN, unless they are marked as such ,which last time I looked, they weren't, you cannot use them outside of the sheath.

btw; when you use a pipe for protection, you have to have a fitting at the end such as a plastic bushing to protect the conductor from the edges of the conduit.
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Old 01-25-2010, 09:41 PM   #30
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thats why ya put a coupling on the top of pipe and nice radius/curve in the romex where it goes into the top of it.im doing a basement rough in tomorrow or thursday,ill take some pics of how i do it

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