Forums | Home Repair | Home Improvement | Painting | Interior Decorating | Remodeling | Landscaping


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 08-04-2010, 01:22 PM   #31
the Musigician
 
DangerMouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: I'm right here!
Posts: 10,404
Share |
Default

Issue with a definite purpose contactor and photo cell.


Quote:
Originally Posted by nap View Post
Yes, especially a DIY'er should turn off the main to do that work.
You got that right! One little slip and *ZAP!* Even if YOU don't get zapped, you still need to excuse yourself to go change..... I ALWAYS shut the power down.... I don't carry spares with me....

DM
__________________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Click
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
to see some of my original magic tricks and trick boxes!
DangerMouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2010, 02:03 PM   #32
UAW SKILLED TRADES
 
Stubbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kansas
Posts: 4,834
Default

Issue with a definite purpose contactor and photo cell.


Unfortunately one of the things that is inherent to DIY forums is that most thread starters (op) are going to give something a try right or wrong whether we assist them or not. It's a fine line whether we choose to give them safety guidance as to correct solutions to their projects or problems.

The best one can do is voice his opinion as to whether the person can do the work safely or not. You could tell this OP that what he is doing is likely to get his ass in a liabilty nightmare if something goes wrong and there is a fire or someone injured from an electrical mishap.

I see very little difference in burning your house down or the apartment you own. I don't buy into the often said statement that it's is ok to put your family in jeopardy in your single family home but not people that rent from you.

You will also find that these OP's often have multiple threads started on several forums looking for professional advice. So we could turn them away here only to have the other forum assist them.

So IMO unless they are obviously in over their heads this particular OP only needs to run about 2 feet of wire to the contactor coil neutral terminal from the panel buss to complete his circuit. And as NAP said an egc is certainly in order.

The person here that I would be likely to not help is the 'someone' that worked for the electrical contractor that installed this PC and lighting circuit. I don't see where any favor was served, after all the OP was expecting the guy to know what he was doing.

IMO we help the guy get this right and it is also prudent to tell him of the liability issues ... at which point the choice is his as to where he wants that liability to stand.

Just my 2 cents.
__________________
" One nice thing about the NEC articles ... you have lots of choices"

Stubbie
Stubbie is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Stubbie For This Useful Post:
DangerMouse (08-04-2010)
Old 08-04-2010, 03:05 PM   #33
Electrician
 
Proby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 818
Default

Issue with a definite purpose contactor and photo cell.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Stubbie View Post
I see very little difference in burning your house down or the apartment you own. I don't buy into the often said statement that it's is ok to put your family in jeopardy in your single family home but not people that rent from you.
You have a point that I agree with.

I don't believe it's ok to put your family at risk either. However, the law says that it is. If you'd like to get the law changed to fix that inconsistency, I think it would be smarter to stop homeowners doing DIY electric than to allow unlicensed people (who don't know even the absolute basics of electric, like needing a neutral ) from doing commercial electrical work.

Quote:
The person here that I would be likely to not help is the 'someone' that worked for the electrical contractor that installed this PC and lighting circuit.
I agree on that. I am not sure that guy even existed. He was said to be an out of state commercial electrician, which would tell me that there is a good chance he doesn't have a license and an even better chance that he doesn't have a California license. So how was the permit pulled? How did an inspector look at this and pass it? Even the dumbest inspectors I have dealt with would see this installation and laugh. I doubt any of that even happened...

Quote:
You will also find that these OP's often have multiple threads started on several forums looking for professional advice. So we could turn them away here only to have the other forum assist them.
Most other electrical forums (which I am a member of most of them) would laugh and turn this guy away. THAT is what should happen which would drive this guy into hiring an electrician.

Let me ask you a question. If I came here asking how to open a bank vault, would you tell me the liabilities and then help me figure it out? Or would you turn me away and hope others did as well?
__________________
Anything fun is either illegal, immoral, or fattening.
Proby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2010, 03:15 PM   #34
the Musigician
 
DangerMouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: I'm right here!
Posts: 10,404
Default

Issue with a definite purpose contactor and photo cell.


Depends on what type vault..... and do we get a cut? LOL

DM
__________________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Click
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
to see some of my original magic tricks and trick boxes!
DangerMouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2010, 04:18 PM   #35
UAW SKILLED TRADES
 
Stubbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kansas
Posts: 4,834
Default

Issue with a definite purpose contactor and photo cell.


Quote:
Let me ask you a question. If I came here asking how to open a bank vault, would you tell me the liabilities and then help me figure it out? Or would you turn me away and hope others did as well?
I'd turn you away unless you promised to give me 50% ....

It wasn't all that long ago where I was an advocate of advising all diy to never take the cover off their homes load center. They simply don't have any business in there. But they do it anyway .. usually because they cannot afford an electrician (at least they think they can't). So I'd rather help them do that safely. I also used to be a firm believer that if it isn't residential in nature or at least close ... that you pass on any advice. I still consider very closely on that one .. before I decide if maybe the op has stepped over the line.

It could be argued that diy should not touch electrical period .. but .. anyone who comes here to this forum I think realizes they need an electrician .. except that cost clouds their common sense. And then there are those DIY that are perfectly capable. I do believe we have to ask the right questions to get some degree of a persons capability before we tell him to stick his hand into anything electrical.

In this case I will agree that the problem is rather basic and lends to the argument he needs to let it be and get a licensed electrican because he doesn't 'see' the problem.. The local jurisdiction mandates it anyway. But I'm willing to bet he just goes somewhere else or asks someone else. On this forum there have been no less than 3 or 4 electricians that know exactly what he needs to do. I also don't see where this OP is not capable as he is certainly providing pictures so we can assist him better with his situation.

We won't save the world by turning this guy away. I don't want to kill him either but every diy is at risk of a goof ...hell there are a lot of electricians that goof now and then... me included.

So the bottom line to me is that this is not a situation that requires any more knowledge than changing out a receptacle. And I think the op understands now that we have explained it with a diagram and step by step instructions.

I also see that this is a mlo panel that the lighting circuit is fed from so he can de-energize everything at the service equipment.

And yes he shouldn't be doing this, and yes he needs inspection .. but he will still do it anyway.

The fact that he is asking on a forum tells me he is interested in safety and doing this correctly. The problem IMO is not one he cannot handle...
so I say help him out ... which it would appear we have done that.

I do understand your very good points but after so many years on forums I've just learned to accept the fact that if you do not help them ..then they do what they "think" they need to do. I sleep better at night when they get information from this forum that keeps them safe ... at least I know they have been made aware of the things that can hurt them.

I also know that telling a DIY that anything electrical is probably something they shouldn't be fooling with and likely is the safest policy. But then why would the big boxes sell to the public ? And why this forum?

You and I both know that for every inspected job that is done by an electrician in the residential world there are 50 that are not.

Some of those 'knowledgable' diy people end up dead but the ones that come here for advice IMO have a higher survival rate.....
__________________
" One nice thing about the NEC articles ... you have lots of choices"

Stubbie
Stubbie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2010, 04:33 PM   #36
Electrician
 
Proby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 818
Default

Issue with a definite purpose contactor and photo cell.


You and I are probably never going to see this eye to eye so going back and forth on it won't help any, but I will say my peace.

This isn't his home, this isn't him helping his poor grandmother out. This is an apartment building that he is profiting off of. He is taking money from people who are paying for a safe place to live. That money should be used to properly and legally maintain the building, the tenant's homes. Instead he is looking to save a buck and putting people, and their children, at risk.

If someone got hurt in a fire that was caused by this person's electrical work, I not only blame him, but I blame the people who knowingly helped him. It's clear that he doesn't know his ass from his elbow when it comes to electric and the last thing he should be wiring is other people's homes.

If you turn him away like most other electrical forums would, he would have to pay the $75 or so for an electrician to come out and fix that.
__________________
Anything fun is either illegal, immoral, or fattening.
Proby is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Proby For This Useful Post:
Yoyizit (08-04-2010)
Old 08-04-2010, 04:42 PM   #37
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NW of D.C.
Posts: 5,990
Default

Issue with a definite purpose contactor and photo cell.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Proby View Post
He is taking money from people who are paying for a safe place to live.
Reminds me of a post where the OP had his house declared unfit because of an outside gas line leak in a buried line on his property. He wanted to fix it himself. It's OK if the OP wants a Darwin Award but he could have also incinerated some of his neighbors.

Same with an OP who wanted advice on modifying a 3500# stock car. Other people are at risk.

Last edited by Yoyizit; 08-04-2010 at 04:46 PM.
Yoyizit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2010, 05:12 PM   #38
UAW SKILLED TRADES
 
Stubbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kansas
Posts: 4,834
Default

Issue with a definite purpose contactor and photo cell.


You are correct that in 'some of the other forums' the moderators would close the thread as soon as the op mentioned 'apartment' but I know a few that won't ...

My whole point has been it won't make any difference as to the final outcome. He is not going to hire an electrician and you are not going to force him to do that by not advising him .. just my experience with diy forums.

Other than that I am going to have to agree with pretty much all you have argued.....
__________________
" One nice thing about the NEC articles ... you have lots of choices"

Stubbie
Stubbie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2010, 05:45 PM   #39
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Canada, BC
Posts: 110
Default

Issue with a definite purpose contactor and photo cell.


I'm no expert at anything DIY, but when I set out to do it I attempt to learn as much as I can/need to beforehand. There are those that will help and there are those that won't. Personally I won't proceed until I can ensure my own safety, but I know of plenty of others who won't, or won't have the common sense to correctly percieve their own safety.

In this situation you just have to ask yourself one question. "Given the likelihood that the original poster is going to go ahead and do this work anyway, possibly risking his own life and those of his tenants. Would I feel better about myself for allowing him to work blind, or aiding him to be safe?"

To be honest, I'm always astonished that some people are willing to let him risk the lives of others by refusing advice, closing threads etc. Sure, strongly suggest he doesn't do the work, report him to the authorities if you know enough information about him. Letting him risk his own life is devoid of compassion, but letting him risk other peoples lives is heinous.
Troglodyte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2010, 06:13 PM   #40
I=E/R
 
a7ecorsair's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,052
Default

Issue with a definite purpose contactor and photo cell.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DangerMouse View Post
Depends on what type vault..... and do we get a cut? LOL

DM
Vaults contain either money or dead people.....................
a7ecorsair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2010, 03:50 AM   #41
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 13
Default

Issue with a definite purpose contactor and photo cell.


Nap,I am unable to respond to your private message because forum rules require I have 20 posts before this is allowed,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, you can email if you want the responce

df

Last edited by delta force; 08-05-2010 at 03:59 AM.
delta force is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2011, 06:16 PM   #42
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Anchorage, Alaska.
Posts: 3
Thumbs up

Issue with a definite purpose contactor and photo cell.


Delta Force (df)

I'm not an electrician but I've done extensive residential work on electrical circuits. I do practically all the elctrical work for our church. I've read all the comments in regards to this circuit. It looks simple enough to hook up.

Delta Force offered to submit a schematic or drawing of the COMPLETE CIRCUIT. It would help me considerably since I need to hook up our Photo-Cell with a separate contactor because I'm constantly replacing the Photo-Cell. I'm using 6 High Pressure Sodium 150Watts each. The Photo Cell is good for 1800 Watts Max. So I shouldn't be blowing the PC as often as I have in the past.

Your Drawing/Schematic I believe will do the trick for me! Thanks a bunch.

You can even email me at igotmail@gci.net
DeepBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2011, 06:18 PM   #43
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Anchorage, Alaska.
Posts: 3
Default

Issue with a definite purpose contactor and photo cell.


Will you send me the circuit drawing? Thanks

DeepBlue
DeepBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2011, 03:56 PM   #44
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Anchorage, Alaska.
Posts: 3
Default

Issue with a definite purpose contactor and photo cell.


It is good to see that we respect each other's views when they may or may not coincide with our views or understanding. It is even better to see that we've done a thorough review of all the facts in concern before we decide to post negative statements concerning the subject matter.

I have and is still learning about electrical circuits from experience and reading the information that is being posted for all to read. I really appreciate the drawing and the time and concerned put into it
for the benefit of others........like myself.

I will use this simple schematic for the lights in our parking lot because I ketp having to replace the photocell. This way, it only sees the LOAD OF THE CONTACTOR COIL, instead of the load of the lights.

Thanks again Delta Force, and thanks to the rest of you for even bringing up the discussion .
DeepBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
42cf15af, controller, photo cell, sw103ctc


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.