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Old 08-02-2010, 08:07 PM   #16
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Issue with a definite purpose contactor and photo cell.


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Originally Posted by bigmacfann View Post
.

Here's what I think everyone is telling me, I need to connect a white wire from where the PC's white wire is connected to the contactor to the neutral bar in the load center. Does that sound correct? Maybe I should take a look at that schematic "delta force" was talking about. Thanks again!
Oui { Yes } that is correct that why it was missing in first place that the key issue why the photocell and contractor is not working at all.

Once you install the netural in there it will function correct and BTW use the 4.0mm˛ { #12 AWG } size only due it will match to the 20 amp breaker you have on it.

Merci.
Marc

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Old 08-02-2010, 08:15 PM   #17
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Issue with a definite purpose contactor and photo cell.


Ya need to toss an EGC in there as well. Since the guy that put that nipple in there screwed it up, you do not have an effective ground to the small box
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Old 08-02-2010, 08:37 PM   #18
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Issue with a definite purpose contactor and photo cell.


I got a couple of questions what type lights are you switching, the reason I ask is the PC will carry 1800 watts and the contactor will only carry 2238 watts (3 HP) ,,,,,,,maybe you don't even need the contactor.

I noticed,,,,,,,,,,,I think this is a 2 pole contactor and only one pole is being used,top and bottom connections on the left.Looking further in the pics there appears to be other terminals on the bottom that are independant from the power terminals, but then why is the neutral coming in on a unused power terminal............sum-ting-wong

I think I'll go online and see if I can find a connection diagram,my curiosity is working on me.

df
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Old 08-02-2010, 08:41 PM   #19
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Issue with a definite purpose contactor and photo cell.


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I got a couple of questions what type lights are you switching, the reason I ask is the PC will carry 1800 watts and the contactor will only carry 2238 watts (3 HP) ,,,,,,,maybe you don't even need the contactor.

I noticed,,,,,,,,,,,I think this is a 2 pole contactor and only one pole is being used,top and bottom connections on the left.Looking further in the pics there appears to be other terminals on the bottom that are independant from the power terminals, but then why is the neutral coming in on a unused power terminal............sum-ting-wong

I think I'll go online and see if I can find a connection diagram,my curiosity is working on me.

df
he is using a contactor so the only load on the PC is the contactor. That is the point of using a contactor. If he is using HID lights, he is better off sticking with a contactor.

the neutral from the PC is connected to the coil terminal, not one of the pole terminals. The pole on the right is not connected to anything.


all he needs is a neutral from the panel to connect the the neutral of the PC and the contactor coil and an egc, at least for the wiring. That still doesn't correct his conduit problems though.

here is a better picture of the coil terminals:

http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/waterheater_2113_12667497

Last edited by nap; 08-02-2010 at 08:50 PM.
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Old 08-02-2010, 09:11 PM   #20
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Issue with a definite purpose contactor and photo cell.


Right you are nap,,I saw that the white wire was not connected to the power terminal and the red was not connected to the power terminal,,,,,,,,,

Here is a connection diagram that fits our thinking

df
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Old 08-02-2010, 10:17 PM   #21
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Issue with a definite purpose contactor and photo cell.


DF .,

That is good drawing however make a note to draw the netural from the load centre to the contractor box where you will need the netural at that location.

That what it need to get it functing properly.

Merci.
Marc
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Old 08-03-2010, 03:21 AM   #22
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Issue with a definite purpose contactor and photo cell.


Marc, yes that would normally be the case but the OP said the lights would function in the test mode so there had to be a neutral somewhere so I just routed it for function and not correctness pictorially> The intent was to make it obvious,there is more than likely two neutrals involved.

df
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Old 08-04-2010, 12:18 AM   #23
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Issue with a definite purpose contactor and photo cell.


I did double check the photo what the OP gave to us and I look alot more closer and it sure engouh you have NM cable going back of the load centre so what you will do is find that matching netural conductor and bring it thur the contractor box and run new netural to the contractor box and ya good to go.

Merci.
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Old 08-04-2010, 07:49 AM   #24
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Issue with a definite purpose contactor and photo cell.


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Originally Posted by frenchelectrican View Post
I did double check the photo what the OP gave to us and I look alot more closer and it sure engouh you have NM cable going back of the load centre so what you will do is find that matching netural conductor and bring it thur the contractor box and run new netural to the contractor box and ya good to go.

Merci.
Marc
Why would he want to do that?
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Old 08-04-2010, 09:03 AM   #25
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Issue with a definite purpose contactor and photo cell.


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Originally Posted by bigmacfann View Post
I just did work on 5 AFCIs myself on a hot panel
I'm just surprised no-one has said anything about this comment....
You mean you didn't shut off the main before doing this?????

DM
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Old 08-04-2010, 10:22 AM   #26
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Issue with a definite purpose contactor and photo cell.


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I'm just surprised no-one has said anything about this comment....
There is so much wrong with this thread that I didn't even feel the need to comment on that.

I'm surprised that you and the other moderators are allowing this to go on when the thread starter opening admitted to committing illegal acts. In my state what he is doing is a class 4 felony. It might only be a misdemeanor in California, but still illegal and extremely dangerous to allow someone who knows so little about electric to do electrical work on an apartment building.
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Old 08-04-2010, 10:46 AM   #27
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Issue with a definite purpose contactor and photo cell.


I agree with ya proby. The only reason I gave the info I did is because Delta Force was throwing out all sorts of misinformation and confusion and all it was was a missing neutral. I figured it was safer to tell him to add a neutral than go through whatever DF was going to have him do and add further risk to injury.

He STILL needs to add an egc to the box especially due to the crappy installation of the nipple (no lock nuts on the outside of the box). There is also a pic where you can see the locknut in the inside of the small box and it is obvious it is not tightened properly. Due to that, any ground connection is tenuous, at best.
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Old 08-04-2010, 10:50 AM   #28
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Issue with a definite purpose contactor and photo cell.


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Originally Posted by DangerMouse View Post
I'm just surprised no-one has said anything about this comment....
You mean you didn't shut off the main before doing this?????

DM
I'm used to working in a hot panel for something as simple as installing breakers so I tend to overlook things like that. Yes, especially a DIY'er should turn off the main to do that work.



just to let you know what fun I have, there is a type of breaker that uses a screw to attach to the bus. When that is in a 277/480 panel, it's always fun to realize you are taking a metal screwdriver and sticking it on 277 hot.

As with most work, there are ways to do things safely, even if they appear to be dangerous. Knowledge of the situation is what allows me (and other electricians) to work safely even when it appears we are going to kill ourselves.
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Old 08-04-2010, 01:03 PM   #29
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Issue with a definite purpose contactor and photo cell.


Nap when you 1st picked up on the fact that this was a contactor and not a controller of some sort,,,,,,,it would have been nice if you would have pointed this out rather than pointing fingers and holding yourself aloof of everyone ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,based on the fact that the so called controller was somewhat of a mystery and the bottom view of the so called controller had not come into being yet as well as the OP said he wanted the lights to be on a photo cell not necessarily controlled via a contactor.It indicated to me that there was not a contactor in the mix.That turned out to be wrong,,,,,,,,,,,You cannot deny that it apeared that the red and white wires in the very first image were terminated on the so called controller and not on the poles of a contactor it was becoming more confusing as to what was really happening.The later set of pictures cleared that up that it was the poles of a contactor.

The statement in the first post that said the lights worked when the test button was depressed also would indicate that a neutral was connected to the system somewhere and who is to say it was not back feeding into the system some where.

Oh BTW,I disagree that the only reason you use a contactor is to keep the load off of the PC,it is used when the lighting load exceeds the rating of the PC or when the client specificaly asks for it in his original job specs.

When it was learned by me that it was in fact a contactor is when I sketched up the schematic/connnection diagram and all bases were covered except the missing neutral.

I would also ask that you be specific in your accusation that I was throwing out a lot of misinformation and confusion.I am willing to retract anything that is in error and am also willing to learn if I did but I really didn't see anything,I did go back and briefly scan all that I posted and would probably respond the same way under said conditions.

In forums through out the world, people up front agree to disagree and any disagreements will/should be sorted out with discussion because written statements do not have the same meaning/connotation as the spoken language.

df

Last edited by delta force; 08-04-2010 at 01:26 PM.
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Old 08-04-2010, 01:05 PM   #30
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Issue with a definite purpose contactor and photo cell.


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There is so much wrong with this thread that I didn't even feel the need to comment on that.
I know what you mean, when I posted that, I hadn't read the whole thread yet.
Thank you for pointing out the legalities of the situation, and I hope the OP takes all of this into account.

DM

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