Isolated Ground Receptacle

chris75 · 02-23-2009, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildie

I must say, in responding to the OP's post, I would have been more cautious with my words, had I considered, even in my wildest dreams that I would have been responded to with such venom!

Its only because what you wrote was so wrong. not my fault.

Bocolo · 02-23-2009, 06:25 PM

Wildie,
Don't feel bad. One of the reasons I enjoy this forum so much is because of threads like this one. You ask one question that appears to be simple and all of a sudden the conversation erupts with different points of views and experiences. The good thing is you have enough professionals in here that will let you know in an instant when something is wrong or "feels" wrong. I have learned something today from this thread. Hopefully you have to. Wether you have learned the proper way to connect your grounds or wether you have learned to properly word what you write. I believe that's what and why we are here. To learn. Although there are quite a few guys here that do more teaching than learning. These guys I appreciate. They don't have to share their knowledge or their time yet they freely do on a daily basis. Thanks for your time.

Speedy Petey · 02-23-2009, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildie

When the EE is the boss, you follow his direction! Plain and simple. Especially after he has consulted with the Electrical Safety people!

Even the boss is wrong sometimes. And if he cannot be corrected or will not listen to suggestions he is not much of a boss.
Being the boss is not only about being in charge. It is about being a leader, and the best way to lead is by example.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildie

I must say, in responding to the OP's post, I would have been more cautious with my words, had I considered, even in my wildest dreams that I would have been responded to with such venom!

Venom? Come on now. I bet your skin is thicker than that.

That was merely a bunch of professionals correcting a common misconception in our field; that a ground rod can provide a circuit ground.

When we see misinformation such as this it is our duty to make sure it is corrected. These thread stay up forever, or at least until the site is taken down. Many folks will read it long after it drops off the front page. To leave up erroneous information would be a disservice to them.

Wildie · 02-23-2009, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris75

Its only because what you wrote was so wrong. not my fault.

You mean to tell me that an inadvertent insertion of the word 'rod' required all this vitriol?
It came across to me, more like a p***ing contest!

Speedy Petey · 02-23-2009, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildie

You mean to tell me that an inadvertent insertion of the word 'rod' required all this vitriol?

Yes, I think that word was specifically the cause. That small three letter word made a BIG difference.

chris75 · 02-23-2009, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildie

You mean to tell me that an inadvertent insertion of the word 'rod' required all this vitriol?
It came across to me, more like a p***ing contest!

I dont do peeing contests, sorry if I hurt your feelings by correcting your mistake.

jasin · 01-21-2012, 10:45 PM

Okay, I have a question about grounds. I once lived in this very old travel trailer that was converted to a mobile home / house. It was really old but was fixed up by the landlord very, very nice. The main electrical panel was actually new as were all new circuit breakers and what not. The cabinets, flooring, fixtures, etc. were all new too.

The problem though was none of the wiring in the walls going to the receptacles were replaced. And the receptacles were without grounds. Therefore, I could not plug in my computer which has a ground. I had to buy one of these http://www.hevle.com/images/3-2prong.jpg to plug it in. That thing does not really create a ground though it just converts the receptacle.

Nevertheless, since the wiring in the walls could not be replaced without tearing the walls off a ground could not be installed by running new line all the way back to the main electrical box. The walls were actually part of the entire structure so if you took them down to install new lines it would of created serious structural problems.

So, in this situation how would you ground them receptacles if they were replaced with receptacles that had grounds? You cannot, as you all said, run grounds to supplemental grounding rods.

mpoulton · 01-21-2012, 11:49 PM

If it's really not possible to run a ground wire from each receptacle back to the panel, then there is no way to ground the receptacles. One code compliant option is to use GFCI receptacles or a GFCI circuit breaker. This does not actually provide a ground, it just makes it legally permissible to use 3-prong receptacles on the ungrounded circuit. You then need to label the receptacles as ungrounded.

jasin · 01-22-2012, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpoulton

If it's really not possible to run a ground wire from each receptacle back to the panel, then there is no way to ground the receptacles. One code compliant option is to use GFCI receptacles or a GFCI circuit breaker. This does not actually provide a ground, it just makes it legally permissible to use 3-prong receptacles on the ungrounded circuit. You then need to label the receptacles as ungrounded.

I believe if you replace the non-grounded outlets with grounded ones you can run a ground to any point that is grounded... even if its many feet away. Like, for example, a metal water line. This is permitted under NEC 250.130 is it not? That would fall under the "Any accessible point" And theoretically a ground could be run up from floor on the inside of the wall side. Only maybe 2' at most would have to be fished up through. That would not require the wall to be removed causing serious problems. In a setup like this the receptacle would essentially become an isolated ground receptacle would it not? Such a setup probably would only work for one receptacle. But if you only need to plug in a one device that requires a ground you really only need one grounded outlet.

mpoulton · 01-22-2012, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasin

I believe if you replace the non-grounded outlets with grounded ones you can run a ground to any point that is grounded... even if its many feet away. Like, for example, a metal water line. This is permitted under NEC 250.130 is it not?

Almost, but not quite. 250.130(C)(1)-(3) does give you some flexibility in where you connect a replacement grounding conductor, but you can't just choose any metal water line. Only the water line within 5' of the entrance to the structure qualifies as part of the grounding electrode system. 250.68(C)(1) does not allow you to connect to a water line anywhere else. You can connect to any other point on the grounding electrode system, or the panel's grounding bus.

jasin · 01-23-2012, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpoulton

Almost, but not quite. 250.130(C)(1)-(3) does give you some flexibility in where you connect a replacement grounding conductor, but you can't just choose any metal water line. Only the water line within 5' of the entrance to the structure qualifies as part of the grounding electrode system. 250.68(C)(1) does not allow you to connect to a water line anywhere else. You can connect to any other point on the grounding electrode system, or the panel's grounding bus.

Thanks