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Old 03-13-2008, 08:57 AM   #1
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Interesting dilema - need advice


Okay, next month I am going to be ripping out another bedroom to remodel, and while I have it torn apart, I would like to take up part of the sub floor to run for a ceiling fan for the living room below.

Here's what I am not sure about.

Sometime in the future the ceiling in the living room will get 12x12 tiles. Not sure when, probably in the next year or so. When I install the box for the fan, it will need to be flush with the existing plaster and lath ceiling. When I add the tiles down the road, the box will become recessed by 1 1/4", due to the furring strips and tiles. After the bedroom is finished, I won't be able to access it from above anymore.


The only thing I can think of would be to leave a few inches slack in the cable going to the box so that when I do the ceiling, I can just make a big hole and lower the box and support.

Anything else I might be able to do now to plan for it?


Also, should I go with a box like this http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...-CC&lpage=none

or the 2x4 method?

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Last edited by CowboyAndy; 03-13-2008 at 08:59 AM.
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Old 03-13-2008, 09:12 AM   #2
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Interesting dilema - need advice


If you plan your framing you could use one of these.

http://www.licensedelectrician.com/Store/SmartBox-3.htm

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Old 03-13-2008, 10:36 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
If you plan your framing you could use one of these.

http://www.licensedelectrician.com/Store/SmartBox-3.htm
They look good, I wonder just how adjustable they are... im going to have to adjust them 1 1/4 inches...
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Old 03-13-2008, 11:01 AM   #4
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Interesting dilema - need advice


Cowboy; They make a fan box similar to your link but it is mounted with THREADED BARS which you expand against the joists, it is also at Lowes.
You can put it in now flush, later you can loosen it and drop it down to flush out with new ceiling.Not cheap bouts 20 bucks but strong as all git out,legal, etc.

#2 Fishin season HELL MAN NOW
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Old 03-13-2008, 11:05 AM   #5
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Interesting dilema - need advice


Quote:
Originally Posted by CowboyAndy View Post
They look good, I wonder just how adjustable they are... im going to have to adjust them 1 1/4 inches...
I wonder about that also. The screws may not hit the joist when lowering the box 1 1/4. How about installing a 2x6 the easy way (flat) between joists to screw your box to from below. Then next year you pull the box down, add a 1 1/4 wood spacer and re-screw the box back up through the spacer and into the 2x6 again?
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Old 03-13-2008, 11:07 AM   #6
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I would use a 2x4 to frame the fan location and use a pancake box for now. Then just replace the pancake with an 1 1/2" octagon box later. Leaving extra cable is a good idea.

http://electrical.hardwarestore.com/...xes-metal.aspx
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Old 03-13-2008, 11:08 AM   #7
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Interesting dilema - need advice


Totally off subject but I have worked on a number of houses that did the tile thing. You will loosen up the old plaster and it will start falling down and destroying the tile after a few years. Taking out that plaster and lath isn't that big of a job. I did a 12 x15 ceiling the other day, and it took about 4 hours including clean up. I knock down the plaster first leaving the lath. I clean up the plaster, and then tear out the lath, and clean up with a shop vac.

Last edited by RobertS; 03-13-2008 at 11:12 AM.
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Old 03-13-2008, 11:08 AM   #8
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Interesting dilema - need advice


You would just back out the screws and lower it to the new level. As long as you have a framing member you should be able to lower it.

Look at this link for an idea on how they adjust.

http://www.aifittings.com/whnew78.htm
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Old 03-13-2008, 11:13 AM   #9
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Interesting dilema - need advice


Quote:
Originally Posted by skymaster View Post
Cowboy; They make a fan box similar to your link but it is mounted with THREADED BARS which you expand against the joists, it is also at Lowes.
You can put it in now flush, later you can loosen it and drop it down to flush out with new ceiling.Not cheap bouts 20 bucks but strong as all git out,legal, etc.

#2 Fishin season HELL MAN NOW
I have used those before, the only thing i dont like about them is there isnt a whole lot of room to get your hands on it when you are working with that size of a hole... I would prefer NOT to use them in a case like this...

and fishing season is NOT now... it was -3* this morning!!! Sure, maybe ice fishing, but thats not my cup of tea. There is NOTHING exciting about freezing your ass off!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrclen View Post
I wonder about that also. The screws may not hit the joist when lowering the box 1 1/4. How about installing a 2x6 the easy way (flat) between joists to screw your box to from below. Then next year you pull the box down, add a 1 1/4 wood spacer and re-screw the box back up through the spacer and into the 2x6 again?
Thats a good thought, definatly something to consider...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebjack View Post
I would use a 2x4 to frame the fan location and use a pancake box for now. Then just replace the pancake with an 1 1/2" octagon box later. Leaving extra cable is a good idea.

http://electrical.hardwarestore.com/...xes-metal.aspx
I thought about a pancake box. how thick are they? if they are only 1/2", that may be out, as the plaster and lath is usually thicker than 1/2".
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Old 03-13-2008, 11:19 AM   #10
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Interesting dilema - need advice


This is an issue we all face at one time or another. Personally I use the 2x4 method with a fan rated box. Mount a standard fixture box on the 2x4 with screws. Only screw the box through the bottom, not on the sides. Screw the 2x4 to the framing members. Now you have a box facing down and the 2x4 facing up. Bring cables into the side KO. Use 12/3 or 14/3 NM so you can have independant fan and light control. Leave some excess cable as you have already mentioned.

When you are ready to finish the ceiling below, all you have to do is remove the screws in the top of the box and remove it. Then go buy a deeper box and screw it back just like the previous one. Just be sure you are able to secure the cable with the appropriate connector. A small hand will easily fit into the hole before mounting.
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Old 03-13-2008, 11:21 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J. V. View Post
This is an issue we all face at one time or another. Personally I use the 2x4 method with a fan rated box. Mount a standard fixture box on the 2x4 with screws. Only screw the box through the bottom, not on the sides. Screw the 2x4 to the framing members. Now you have a box facing down and the 2x4 facing up. Bring cables into the side KO. Use 12/3 or 14/3 NM so you can have independant fan and light control. Leave some excess cable as you have already mentioned.

When you are ready to finish the ceiling below, all you have to do is remove the screws in the top of the box and remove it. Then go buy a deeper box and screw it back just like the previous one. Just be sure you are able to secure the cable with the appropriate connector. A small hand will easily fit into the hole before mounting.
It looks like this is the method I am leaning towards. Seems like it will be the simplest when the time comes to do the ceiling.
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Old 03-13-2008, 11:45 AM   #12
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Interesting dilema - need advice


Not much of a dilema.


Hang it now and re hang it later using whatever it takes. New backing won't be an issue because you are covering the old ceiling anyway...right?



Leave plenty of slack, not just a few inches.
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Old 03-13-2008, 11:58 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 220/221 View Post
Not much of a dilema.


Hang it now and re hang it later using whatever it takes. New backing won't be an issue because you are covering the old ceiling anyway...right?



Leave plenty of slack, not just a few inches.
my only concern when we put in the ceiling is the mess i would have to make if i had to enlarge the opening to rehang it... sucks to have to move everything to the otherside of the room and cover in plastic to make the hole bigger... plaster dust sucks!

That being said, I am willing to do what I have to do...

But some of the options sound pretty good where I wont ave to do that.

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