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forcedreno2012 12-19-2012 03:53 AM

Insulation and can lights
 
We are upgrading some of the lighting with the repairs and will be getting rid of some of the older than my grandma lighting and adding some cans. We are able to use the new construction version but will be getting blown in insulation. I have been advised to cover the lights in the attic. Is it acceptable to build a box out of left over sheet rock and sit that over the light giving plenty of room when they insulate, and can that box stay there forever or just cover the cans while the insulation is being done?

Thanks

k_buz 12-19-2012 06:53 AM

Look for cans that are IC rated. IC stands for "insulation contact". If the cans will be installed in an attic space, which I assume they will be due to blown in insulation, you will need air-tite cans. The designation for that is AT.

ddawg16 12-19-2012 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k_buz (Post 1075870)
Look for cans that are IC rated. IC stands for "insulation contact". If the cans will be installed in an attic space, which I assume they will be due to blown in insulation, you will need air-tite cans. The designation for that is AT.

^^That.

If your going to the big box stores for them (HD or Lowes), I would avoid he CE (Comercial Electric) brand. I've used a bunch of Halo's (my garage alone has 16 of them) and while not the best in the world...I've had no issues.

If the cans you have now are already installed and are not IC rated...yea, you will need a box. If they are not AT rated as well, I believe you can solve that with the trim...they make air tight trims for most cans....

I would also suggest spending the bucks and going with LED bulbs...you can dim them and they will save you a boat load of money in the future.....and, you won't be replacing bulbs as often....if at all.

forcedreno2012 12-29-2012 06:13 AM

Apologies for not getting back to this before now I was sidetracked by having to replace all the breakers in the panel and 9 million miles of intercom and coax wiring in the attic. Thanks for the input.

If I read the responses correctly - if we are using blown in insulation then I have to use the AT designation regardless of if I build a box around them? My thinking is that if I build the boxes and leave them up then I might be less inclined to step on the bloody things after the insulation is in. :laughing:

Will also look at the LED versions and thanks for the info on what not to get, we are working with a local supplier and they have been great with respects on what "not to get".

k_buz 12-29-2012 08:07 AM

If these are going to be installed in a ceiling with an insulated attic above you will need ICAT cans (insulation contact air-tite).

buddy builder 12-29-2012 08:44 AM

k buz is right on everything. if you think you might step on one of these cans then you better stay out of the attic. they are not mounted on top of joists in the attic and that is all you can step on. i once had a client who just had to follow me around in a high ceiling attic and about ten steps into the attic "whoosh". he had stepped on a piece of 2x4 put between joists to be pearling for sheetrock that wasn't nailed. down he went through the sheetrock, caught one leg on the joist, flipped over and hit on his hand which he instincly put out and broke his wrist in five places. don't trust anything in the attic except the joists themselves. if you need to identify the cans in a blown attic just wipe back enough insulation to reveal the top. once again if you think you might step on a can light, you need to STAY OUT of your attic.

sweaty 12-29-2012 01:15 PM

Before you insulate, seal around the cans with caulk or spray foam. Otherwise, air will go through the insulation.

forcedreno2012 12-29-2012 02:43 PM

Thanks for the additional information.

forcedreno2012 09-05-2014 10:12 PM

So I went to HD today and I ended up with the halo 4" airtight IC boxes. I only got two of the LED bulbs though, one in each kelvin so we could see which one we wanted. (those suckers are not cheap). Below is what I got for the cans. But in reading the box it states that cooper will not warranty the unit if you use anything other than HALO LEDs. I was told to go with the CREE Ecosmart . Can I use the CREE in this halo housing or is this dangerous.

I am also assuming that when I install these I am supposed to remove the 700 Washington state and California compliant yadda yadda stickers that they conveniently stick INSIDE the can where you cannot reach them?

http://www.cooperindustries.com/cont...!halo!led.html

Thanks

joed 09-06-2014 08:16 AM

Quote:

The LED connection is non-screw base to preserve the high efficacy rating of the luminaire
Are you sure you can even put the LEDs you bought into the unit?

forcedreno2012 09-06-2014 03:25 PM

Joe its a little confusing. The link I posted is to coopers site. The unit I got was from Home Depot. It the Home Depot rebrand thing it does take the screw in unit. The Halo box states that it cans be used for LED but it has that "only halo LED" clause. I am trying to figure out if that is just the normal company stuff so you use there bulbs or if there is a danger using another brand.

Oso954 09-06-2014 03:48 PM

Halo doesn't make bulbs.
They do make an LED Module (led and trim).

Are you talking about a Cree eco smart bulb or module ?

If your can has a screw in base, you probably have the h99icat not the h995icat.

forcedreno2012 09-06-2014 04:16 PM

Okay I think I found it ...

I don't have to have the gu24 base. I think I posted the wrong link above for cooper.

According to this from the Cree website I should be okay. It looks like the 99ICAT is for both LED and regular bulbs and the 995ICAT is for LED only.

Other than HALO not honoring the warranty I don't think I am going to burn down the house.


The CR4 Series of LED downlights is designed to upgrade existing 4" recessed housings to energy-saving, long-lasting LED lighting.
Compatible housings are at least 3.5" tall, when measured from the ceiling to the bottom of the socket base AND between 3.9" and 4.1" in maximum inner diameter. Measure your existing housings to ensure compatibility. Examples of housings that are known to be compatible are*:


Halo
H99 Series
Juno
IC1 Series and TC1 Series
Commercial Electric
HBR2000R
Progress
P831-AT, P831-FB, P830-TG, P832-TG
Con-Tech
RL20 Series
All-Pro
E1400AT, ET400RATSB



*Note: Compatible housings should have either an E26 "Edison" base or GU24 base socket, powered by 120V AC and installed according to the National Electric Code and local installation requirements. Always measure existing housings to ensure compatibility.

ddawg16 09-06-2014 04:18 PM

While I buy a lot of stuff at HD, I'm very disappointed in their lighting section, especially cans.

Lots of information missing. They are selling new construction cans with Edison sockets but make no mention of title 24. The could easily have a small board up there explaining those cans with Edison sockets are not Title 24 compliant even if you shove a cfl or led bulb in it.

Unless your using a dimmer or occupancy sensor.

Research GU24. If you install cans with Edison sockets, I've found a source for a GU24 socket that makes it easy to retrofit.

Side note....I picked up some 3" cans pretty cheap....came with Halogen bulbs but there plenty of GU10 LED bulbs to retrofit into them.

forcedreno2012 09-06-2014 04:40 PM

Dawg,

We don't follow Title 24 here in MS. The halo cans that are ICAT were 18 each with our discount. They have the Edison base and the crees they sell here are the Edison base. You cant even get the others in Mississippi yet. Its hard enough to find the two pin for Halogens. We are also using a dimmer (I think.....switches are his job - I get to do the wiring in the attic :P) This should be an easy install though as the ceiling is about to be opened completely.

I definitely agree that stores can do more in the way of information especially for local areas that have special requirements. They do a pretty good job down here with wind requirements because of the hurricanes.


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