Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-02-2009, 11:37 PM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 55
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Installing Service In Shed.


hello,
i want to install a 240vac service panel in my shed. i plan to run 10-2 uf from the main breaker panel of the house, to the shed. about 125ft, direct bury. how do i install to the main panel in the house? should i run it off a 2 pole 60 amp breaker? and how about when i attach it to the panel in the shed? i am going to install a 10-12 slot panel in the shed and run a few 20amp branch circuits....bob

bobo60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 11:41 PM   #2
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 17,248
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Installing Service In Shed.


10-2 will not get you 60a 240v
I had to go to #6 wire for 60 amps
I had to run 2 hots, white neutral, green ground wire
You still need conduit to protect it going into & coming out of the ground

This is detached? I had to run 2 ground rods from the sub
There are specific rules for subs
Neutrals & grounds must be kept on separate bus

Scuba_Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 11:49 PM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,294
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

Installing Service In Shed.


Quote:
i plan to run 10-2 uf from the main breaker panel of the house, to the shed. about 125ft, direct bury. how do i install to the main panel in the house? should i run it off a 2 pole 60 amp breaker?
Lord help us all. This isn't going to go well.

Do more research before you plan anything.

10 wire = 30 amps

240V panel requires 4 wires

Direct bury is legal but subject to damage. PVC is cheap.

Ground rods required at detached building.
220/221 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2009, 12:25 AM   #4
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 55
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Installing Service In Shed.


hi,

ok. two hots=120vac per leg =240vac. neutral=is for 110vac between a hot leg and the neutral, and then you have a ground wire, correct? i will do some more research, and "oh my god help us all" is uncalled for! im asking here in this forum to learn. i have wired branch circuits before, just not this type of wiring prodject. i know the basics, i just need to know how to wire from a main panel to a subpanel. i also realize that in a subpanel that you must attach ground wires to the ground bar, and commons to the common bar, unlike main panels, that can be used for both when needed. correct?
bobo60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2009, 01:21 AM   #5
DIY'er
 
jamiedolan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Neenah, Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 2,032
Rewards Points: 1,000
Blog Entries: 2
Default

Installing Service In Shed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bobo60 View Post
hi,

ok. two hots=120vac per leg =240vac. neutral=is for 110vac between a hot leg and the neutral, and then you have a ground wire, correct?
Where are you comming up with this 110V ? What are you talking about? You feed the panel with 2 hots, one from each leg of your panel, then you run a neutral wire, and a ground wire. Running it in conduit from your panel to the garage is best, imo.

You will want to have ground rods installed at the remote building as well.
__________________
Jamie Dolan - Neenah, WI
Jamie Dolan Paw Dogs
Need Help Uploading Photos? Click here.
jamiedolan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2009, 02:04 AM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 55
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Installing Service In Shed.


sorry. meant that you get 120vac from one leg to ground, was thinking about something else, sorry..
so two hots (red and black) neutral (white) ground (green) thru conduit. and two ground rods at the shed. what about the conduit? what should i use? pvc? 1/2" , 3/4" for 4 #10 ga conductors?

Last edited by bobo60; 02-03-2009 at 02:15 AM.
bobo60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2009, 06:46 AM   #7
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Long Island
Posts: 348
Rewards Points: 250
Default

Installing Service In Shed.


Quote:
for 4 #10 ga conductors?
re-read what scuba wrote and at that distance, you might have to run #4's for a 60 Amp service.


call a pro in for advice and let him do the final hook up for you. He wont mind you doing all the hard work. You seem to be in over you by just a little bit.
II Weeks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2009, 08:18 AM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Iowa
Posts: 1,543
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

Installing Service In Shed.


Might be cheaper to use AL for this.
rgsgww is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2009, 08:41 AM   #9
Licensed Electrical Cont.
 
Speedy Petey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 6,877
Rewards Points: 2,108
Default

Installing Service In Shed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bobo60 View Post
...., and "oh my god help us all" is uncalled for!
NO, not really.

If you were looking at the original post from our viewpoint you'd understand. When a post like that is made with so many grave issues/mistakes, it is hard not to comment on it.

No, this is not rocket science, but it IS important to know what you are doing before doing it because people can get very dead from mistakes.

Coming here to get straightened out was a good first move.
__________________
Sometimes I feel like if I answer any more questions it is like someone trying to climb over a fence to jump off a bridge and me giving them a boost.
Answers based on the 2008 & 2011 NEC.
Speedy Petey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2009, 08:55 AM   #10
DIY'er
 
jamiedolan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Neenah, Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 2,032
Rewards Points: 1,000
Blog Entries: 2
Default

Installing Service In Shed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bobo60 View Post
sorry. meant that you get 120vac from one leg to ground, was thinking about something else, sorry..
so two hots (red and black) neutral (white) ground (green) thru conduit. and two ground rods at the shed. what about the conduit? what should i use? pvc? 1/2" , 3/4" for 4 #10 ga conductors?

How many amps do you need at the shead. 60a will melt 10 gage wire. If you search my posts we had some good discussions about feeding a detached garage a few weeks ago.

you need to know what amp service you need to know what wire to get and what conduit to run.
Jamie
__________________
Jamie Dolan - Neenah, WI
Jamie Dolan Paw Dogs
Need Help Uploading Photos? Click here.
jamiedolan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2009, 09:49 AM   #11
Licensed Pro
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: SC
Posts: 1,545
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

Installing Service In Shed.


Quote:
60a will melt 10 gage wire
Let's not get too carried away Jamie. Pulling 60A for a long period of time on 10ga THHN wire may damage the insulation, but it won't "melt the wire".

bobo: No one is trying to insult you, but as Petey pointed out, your OP contained so many errors, they are hard to ignore. If you want 60A at the detached building, use at least 6ga wire.
__________________
"Life is hard. Life is harder when you're stupid." John Wayne
HouseHelper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2009, 10:13 AM   #12
UAW SKILLED TRADES
 
Stubbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kansas
Posts: 5,131
Rewards Points: 2,232
Default

Installing Service In Shed.


Hi bobo

Quote:
i am going to install a 10-12 slot panel in the shed and run a few 20amp branch circuits....bob
I would like to ask what your requirements are at the shed. What do you intend to operate out there now and in the future? It could be that you will be just fine with a 20 amp multiwire or just a 20 amp branch circuit. Shed to me is something that you will only be running lights and receptacles and operating some hand tools. If this is going to be your shop then 60 amps may be in order if you intend to have high draw equipment out there like a welder or big air compressor.
__________________
" One nice thing about the NEC articles ... you have lots of choices"

Stubbie

Last edited by Stubbie; 02-03-2009 at 10:16 AM.
Stubbie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2009, 12:34 PM   #13
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,294
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

Installing Service In Shed.


Quote:
"oh my god help us all" is uncalled for!
Don't be so sensitive Shirley, I was just trying to get your attention. Keep in mind that we run into installations every single day that were done by guys that know just enough to be dangerous.

Unbunch you panties and study up. People here will help but you have to do some work. One pic is worth a thousand words so take some pics of your panel and the route you are planning on taking.

Like Petey said, it's not rocket science but there are always several different ways to get the job done. The decisions are made from the details.

Last edited by 220/221; 02-03-2009 at 12:55 PM.
220/221 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2009, 12:44 PM   #14
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 17,248
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Installing Service In Shed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bobo60 View Post
sorry. meant that you get 120vac from one leg to ground, was thinking about something else, sorry..
so two hots (red and black) neutral (white) ground (green) thru conduit. and two ground rods at the shed. what about the conduit? what should i use? pvc? 1/2" , 3/4" for 4 #10 ga conductors?
If anything I post is off somoene please correct me
I ran a 60a 240v sub just in case I ever wanted to connect a bigger draw 240v item out there. My pool pump draws 9.3a @240v - it was drawing (Max) 18.6a @ 120v. I used 1" PVC (grey - not white), I also needed pull lube to get the wires thru the PVC. If my garage had been built it would have been a short underground run of about 15' & the rest in the garage. Since I has several turns I needed pull "boxes"
You are only allowed so many turns in the conduit



Bury depth - this depends upon what the conduit will run under. IE a driveway, walkway etc. I had a backhoe on site digging a trench to have the service feed buried. So I went down 30", bury depth is to the top of the PVC. Sand is required in the trench, then the conduit goes on top. Then it is inspected, inspector will usually want to see or make sure you will be covering the conduit with sand

I used a 100a panel with a main breaker, I like being able to shut off a sub all at once - especially in a detached building. It was fed with a 60a 240v double pole breaker in the main panel. When you use conduit make sure you use the plastic bushing inside the panels

I had (2) #6 hots, 1 #6 white neutral & a #8 green ground

You also have to account for voltage drop depending upon the distance:

http://www.csgnetwork.com/voltagedropcalc.html

Voltage drop needs to be kept to a min, I'm not sure what that is - mine was calculated at about 2.5%

Ground rods - 2 required - 6' apart - driven down 8' ??
That was my setup

Grounds & neutrals seperate at the sub. Ground bus/bar must be grounded to the case

Electricity can kill you, one of the reason so many people will recommend an electrician if you have any doubts. I know several instances where people did all the frunt work - digging the trenchm running the wire etc. Then the electrician cam in & did the final hook-ups & then Inspector came while the electrician was there. Good way to save some $$ & make sure it is done right

If I ever want to connect a welder or some other 240v load I have planet of power out there. I only wanted to run wire once. I also use some of the outside GFCI outlets for my Christmas & Halloween display

Last edited by Scuba_Dave; 02-03-2009 at 12:46 PM.
Scuba_Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2009, 01:37 PM   #15
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 55
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Installing Service In Shed.


scuba,

i have used pull boxes before for some outside flood lites and outlet, using 1/2" grey pvc with 12ga conductors. i dont think i really need a 60amp service in the shed. im only gonna install three quad outlets, outside duplex outlet, gonna use a gfci breaker for outlets,4 ft 2 tube flourescent lite over workbench, one single incadesent or cfl in center of ceiling, and one single flood lite outside over door. not planing on running any heavy duty equipment, like 240vac air compreesor, or welder, but a friend of mine suggested a service, so i have the power there if i need it. plus i could run branch circuits for the lighting and outlets, keeping them seperate, and also, if i put in a small fridge or something that needs a dedicated circuit, i can. can i run a 30amp service? im not being sensitive, i understand what i am working with, and the fact that it can kill me, or do serious damage if im not watching what im doing. ive worked mainly with branch circuits, so this is rather new to me, thats why im here asking dumb questions...bob

bobo60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Do I have any more electrical service capacity? (Power for Shed) Magnus357 Electrical 7 10-13-2012 09:52 AM
Remodel - Moving from 200 amp service to 320 amps stevedar Electrical 20 11-29-2009 09:14 PM
Grounding for two service entrances to same house. jogr Electrical 18 09-24-2008 11:31 AM
Installing new (service?) breaker panel and generator panel Nhrafan Electrical 6 04-01-2008 04:03 PM
200 amp panel with a 100 amp service? alexz Electrical 10 07-29-2007 11:00 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.