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Old 09-20-2012, 08:19 PM   #46
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Installing OTR microwave but no electrical outlet in upper cabinet


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Originally Posted by ItsaSpider View Post
No, this is not true.

The code requires a dedicated circuit for a range hood that is cord and plug connected.
Missouri Bound's statement is true, OTR microwaves require dedicated circuits. Cord/plug range hoods also require dedicated circuits (because in the future it may be changed to an OTR MW.

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Old 09-20-2012, 08:19 PM   #47
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Installing OTR microwave but no electrical outlet in upper cabinet


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That statement was true, there is no exception that would allow you to not install a dedicated circuit for the microhood.
No one said "microhood". There are microwaves that can be mounted under the cabinet that do not have vent hoods.

To be clear for the DIYers reading, the code requires a dedicated circuit for a range hood that is cord and plug connected. That, of course, goes for OTR microwaves if they have a vent built in.

Last edited by ItsaSpider; 09-20-2012 at 08:21 PM.
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Old 09-20-2012, 08:20 PM   #48
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Installing OTR microwave but no electrical outlet in upper cabinet


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Missouri Bound's statement is true, OTR microwaves require dedicated circuits.
No, they are not, unless they have a vent built in.
Quote:
Cord/plug range hoods also require dedicated circuits (because in the future it may be changed to an OTR MW.
That is NOT the reason.

BTW, an OTR microwave usually won't fit above a stove in place of a vent hood because they each use a different cabinet size above.
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Old 09-20-2012, 08:29 PM   #49
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Installing OTR microwave but no electrical outlet in upper cabinet


That is the reason. This way when the vent hood gets changed to a MW everything is already in place and someone is not trying to run a MW on the lighting circuit.

Correct or not, many will just remove the venthood and install the MW, regardless of any clearance requirements.
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Old 09-20-2012, 08:31 PM   #50
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Installing OTR microwave but no electrical outlet in upper cabinet


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That is the reason. This way when the vent hood gets changed to a MW everything is already in place and someone is not trying to run a MW on the lighting circuit.

Correct or not, many will just remove the venthood and install the MW, regardless of any clearance requirements.
Can you cite the proposal to the CMP containing that reasoning?

Considering the fact that a microwave mounted above the range is not required to have a dedicated circuit, it simply makes no sense.

If they wanted a microwave mounted above the range to require a dedicated circuit, they would specify that in the NEC.
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Old 09-20-2012, 08:37 PM   #51
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Installing OTR microwave but no electrical outlet in upper cabinet


How about 110.3(b)? The instructions from the manufacturer require the dedicated circuit. The NEC says the instructions need to be followed. Therefore the dedicated circuit is required by the NEC.
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Old 09-20-2012, 08:41 PM   #52
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Installing OTR microwave but no electrical outlet in upper cabinet


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How about 110.3(b)? The instructions from the manufacturer require the dedicated circuit. The NEC says the instructions need to be followed. Therefore the dedicated circuit is required by the NEC.
If the manufacturer requires a dedicated circuit, then you would be correct. But you are making an assumption that all manufacturers require that. Remember, you can buy OTR microwaves without vent hoods, they may not be popular, but they are available. And I am sure that you haven't read the instructions of every microwave on the market.

My response was to this post:

Quote:
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The code requires a dedicated outlet for a permanently installed OTR microwave. There are no exceptions.
This is said in a very blatant way, while not be completely true. I think it's important to be perfectly accurate when trying to teach others.
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Old 09-20-2012, 09:32 PM   #53
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Installing OTR microwave but no electrical outlet in upper cabinet


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Actually it can where pole cat resides you can do homeowner permits
Sure he can, sounds like he does it as a job though.
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Old 09-21-2012, 08:17 AM   #54
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I have no issues with homeowners doing their own work, hence the fact I'm here attempting to help them.

...... But homeowner or licensed all work should be done to current code, and I would absolutely hate to see someone get hurt due to advice given from here. Diyers need to take into account that you can't just start with the big stuff. There's a learning curve. A mistake with electrical isn't a 5min patch job, it could cost you your life.
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Old 09-21-2012, 08:38 AM   #55
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Installing OTR microwave but no electrical outlet in upper cabinet


The ability to read and comprehend does not give one the skill set to perform the work to the same level. There are also many nuances in interpreting the codes that can cause many hours of debate among trade professionals.

There are too many people that think that DIY is what is shown on television. Meanwhile the professionals can see the incorrect procedures and/or lack of code compliance.
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Old 09-21-2012, 08:55 AM   #56
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Installing OTR microwave but no electrical outlet in upper cabinet


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I have no issues with homeowners doing their own work, hence the fact I'm here attempting to help them.

...... But homeowner or licensed all work should be done to current code, and I would absolutely hate to see someone get hurt due to advice given from here. Diyers need to take into account that you can't just start with the big stuff. There's a learning curve. A mistake with electrical isn't a 5min patch job, it could cost you your life.
I agree about complying with current code. Big stuff though I would put in the industrial 3 phase environment. A 20A branch for a microwave in your home is a perfect starter project. I remember the first time I dabbled behind the cover of a breaker panel I was scared s#!tless. Keep one hand in your pocket and good god man - Don't tremble! If you want to do it yourself you got to do some research and understand the risk. Then get your hands dirty.
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Old 09-21-2012, 09:11 AM   #57
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Installing OTR microwave but no electrical outlet in upper cabinet


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The ability to read and comprehend does not give one the skill set to perform the work to the same level. There are also many nuances in interpreting the codes that can cause many hours of debate among trade professionals.

There are too many people that think that DIY is what is shown on television. Meanwhile the professionals can see the incorrect procedures and/or lack of code compliance.
We are talking about a simple branch circuit here, not open heart surgery. The DIY guy does not have to have the whole code book memorized and 5 years apprentice time to safely do this. And honestly, I think the main reason for debate over interpretation is more of a compliance issue than a safety issue.
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Old 09-21-2012, 06:11 PM   #58
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Installing OTR microwave but no electrical outlet in upper cabinet


The issue with this is that electricians need to be trained to do a whole lot more than just replace circuits. To troubleshoot accurately you need to know how and why things work the way they do. Personally my license covers me to work on commercial, industrial, residential and new construction. Although I primarily work on 3 phase I can work on houses as well should I have to. The scope of knowledge is so big that I've resigned myself to never being able to know everything. So after 5 years of school and passing an exam I'm able to work on 8000hp cat genny's or 1000mcm feeder in massive switchboards. If the fact that the same skillset also allows me to legally work on a microwave circuit I appologize. I've worked hard and spent much to get here and if after the cost of doing business I get to keep $30 bucks out of the 60 the customer gets charged I think I'm entitled to that.
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Last edited by Gary in WA; 09-21-2012 at 06:14 PM. Reason: Removed post from quote.
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Old 09-21-2012, 06:16 PM   #59
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Posts have been removed, please remember our forum rule; "Treat others with respect" found at the bottom of every page in "Privacy statement" or "Terms of service". Gary
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Old 09-21-2012, 08:41 PM   #60
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Installing OTR microwave but no electrical outlet in upper cabinet


Actually the master part just means I can put my number on a permit lol. Next to some of the resi pros here I know squat about residential code wise. Hence the fact I say there's too much to ever learn in a lifetime. The scope of work is huge. A lot of these guys can tell you amperage draws just from equipment names. They've had the same training as I have basically they just have a different license. To be honest I differ to their skill for the simple reason that they're better at resi work than ill likely ever be. I'm here to learn from them and they should be given the same amount of respect as any industrial or commercial electrician. Housewiring may seem simple enough but there's so many little nuances that can bite you in the butt its not funny.

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