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-   -   Install a breaker box behind a breaker???? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/install-breaker-box-behind-breaker-176110/)

JSJ 04-02-2013 01:00 PM

Install a breaker box behind a breaker????
 
New house and garage. Garage has 1 switch, 1 light bulb and 2 outlets. Is there anyway I can run my 12-2 from a spare breaker in the main box out to the garage and into a new breaker box?? How would I hook the 12-2 into the new box in the garage??
Thanx for all helpful replies guys n gals!!!

jbfan 04-02-2013 01:40 PM

Attached or detached?

JSJ 04-02-2013 01:48 PM

Detached

JSJ 04-02-2013 01:54 PM

To go into a little more detail, the previous owner ran overhead wires from a back door light to the garage. Flip the back porch light on and you get power in the garage!!! Not sure what all is on that circuit, but it comes from the laundry room area. Would rather run a whole new circuit out there from a spare breaker in the main box in the house.

hammerlane 04-02-2013 01:58 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by JSJ (Post 1150927)
Is there anyway I can run my 12-2 from a spare breaker in the main box out to the garage and into a new breaker box??

Do you mean a junction box in the garage or an actual breaker panel?

JSJ 04-02-2013 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hammerlane (Post 1150957)
Do you mean a junction box in the garage or an actual breaker panel?

an actual breaker box. so basically if it tripped it would trip in the garage and not all the way up in the house.

rosem637 04-02-2013 02:14 PM

it would have to be a sub panel. Best left for the pros due to your limited knowledge of not even knowing a sub panel would be needed.

JSJ 04-02-2013 02:27 PM

a sub panel would be wired in from the main in-feed lines going to the main box, right?? I just want to know if I can wire from an actual circuit breaker in the main box to feed a whole new breaker box.

SquishyBall 04-02-2013 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSJ (Post 1150976)
a sub panel would be wired in from the main in-feed lines going to the main box, right?? I just want to know if I can wire from an actual circuit breaker in the main box to feed a whole new breaker box.

The main "in-feed lines" feed the main box only. A subpanel would be fed off a breaker in the main box. I wouldn't run 20A... I'd go 30A / 10ga to a subpanel in a garage. But I agree w the others... if you're going to do this, you really should start w a lot of reading as you sound pretty new to wiring. There are lots of things to be concerned with. What kind of cable to bury. How deep. How to transition from buried to the structure. Do you need a ground rod at a detached garage. Whether or not to bond the neutral. Get a book on the subject and start reading. Pull a permit. It won't cost much and they'll check the important stuff for you. If you do your homework ahead of time and come ready w good questions, most inspectors are happy to answer them.

JSJ 04-02-2013 03:01 PM

so basically I can run a 30A 2pole breaker in my main, run 12-3 wire, wired black and red hot from main breaker to feed sub panel, common from main common bus to common bus in new breaker box, and run a ground from new panel common bus to an earth ground.

SquishyBall 04-02-2013 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSJ (Post 1150993)
so basically I can run a 30A 2pole breaker in my main, run 12-3 wire, wired black and red hot from main breaker to feed sub panel, common from main common bus to common bus in new breaker box, and run a ground from new panel common bus to an earth ground.

If you run a 30A 2 pole breaker then you need at least 10-3 wire, not 12-3.

But the grounding question is one for your locality (or the pros out here). I don't know if 10-3 plus ground tying the ground to the main box ground is appropriate or Earth ground instead. I've only installed a sub within a dwelling, in which case the ground comes from the main box as well.

JSJ 04-02-2013 03:30 PM

10-3, gotcha!!!
I wont run grnd from main box out to the garage, but earth ground my com bus in my new box.

seansy59 04-02-2013 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSJ (Post 1151004)
10-3, gotcha!!!
I wont run grnd from main box out to the garage, but earth ground my com bus in my new box.

Lets see if you really want to do this:

You must run a ground wire from your main panel. In your case, 4 separate wires. Hot 1, Hot 2, neutral, and ground.

You need at least 1 8ft ground rod fed with #6 solid or stranded wire. Some areas require 2 located 6ft apart, especially if you have water/or gas running to your garage from the house.

Make sure ground bar and neutral bar are separate in the sub panel! They CANNOT be tied together.

Running Methods:

You need 4 10 gauge THWN/THHN wires in conduit, at least 18" deep. Protect by 30a DP breaker.

Or you can run 10/3 (with ground) UF cable 24" deep, and sleeve it with conduit where it goes above ground. Protected by 30a DP breaker.

You cannot run more than 1 circuit out to a detached building.

You can run a MWBC (Multi Wire Branch Circuit) which would effectively give you 2 20 amp circuits if you run 12/3 (with ground) cable. Protected by 20a DP breaker. This eliminates the need for a ground rod and sub panel.

Under no circumstance can you run what is known as "Romex" or "NM Cable" underground or anywhere outside. You can use it in the garage under some circumstances depending on how you run it and what your local code is. Even in conduit outside it is considered wet location. Big no-no.

brric 04-02-2013 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSJ (Post 1151004)
10-3, gotcha!!!
I wont run grnd from main box out to the garage, but earth ground my com bus in my new box.

You must run a grounding conductor to the garage, four wires, hot, hot, neutral, ground.

JSJ 04-03-2013 08:33 AM

Thanx seansy59, the check is in the mail buddy!!!lol Thanx for taking the time to give me a such a great and detailed answer. I didn't know I couldn't run romex underground even if it was in conduit. I also thought I could get away with earth grnding my com bus in the new garage box.


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