Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-05-2012, 11:58 PM   #46
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 30
Rewards Points: 0
Share |
Default

Input needed on 240 vs. 120v situation


Quote:
Originally Posted by ddawg16 View Post
Ok....redemption......had you said you were using "Monster Cable", then I would have chalked you up to someone who doesn't know what they are doing...
Agreed.

Quote:
While I consider a 3000w sub to be a 'bit' more than the average home theater needs....I guess it would make for some pretty good dynamic response on the low end. I bet that b!tch is pretty heavy...would have to be in order to project the sound. How big is it and does the speaker aim down or out?
The speaker aims out. Sealed sub design with a curved cabinet (to help eliminate standing waves inside the cabinet). It weighs 114lbs. Just the speaker magnet itself weighs 35lbs. Real wood finish (cherry). I found it used online from a nice gentleman in Florida. Normal retail is $4900, he sold it to me for $1900 and after trading in my old subwoofers for $1500, voila only $400 out of pocket


Last edited by BigCoolJesus; 04-06-2012 at 12:16 AM.
BigCoolJesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 12:04 AM   #47
JOATMON
 
ddawg16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: S. California
Posts: 7,301
Rewards Points: 132
Default

Input needed on 240 vs. 120v situation


Quote:
Originally Posted by mpoulton View Post
Yep, I missed that. Replacing single-poles with double-poles could get him back under the limit, even with a quad for the AC and subwoofer. If the panel accepts tandems/quads.
Actually...that sub panel looks exactly like the one I have in my garage....8 slots....but I can only use 6. Found out the hard way......
__________________
"The dream is free but the hustle is sold separately."

My 2-Story Addition Build in Progress Link ... My Garage Build Link and My Jeep Build Link
ddawg16 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 12:16 AM   #48
JOATMON
 
ddawg16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: S. California
Posts: 7,301
Rewards Points: 132
Default

Input needed on 240 vs. 120v situation


Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
From the get go I wondered why I wouldn't just install a larger panel with a main breaker.....but when I did a quick Google search I came across people saying the power company has to be notified to turn off the power, I would need city approval since I am rewiring, etc, etc.....so needless to say I felt overwhelmed looking into that route instantly.

What would be involved if I wanted to add a bigger panel with a main breaker? Or rather, how much would a typical electrician charge for such a job?

Thanks!
Ok....you get a "you suck" award on the sub-woofer deal....sounds like a nice unit.

On you sub panel...if it is fed from the main panel, then you should be able just kill the power at your main using the main breker and do all your work on the sub safely.

On the 'approval' part....technically, you need a permit to do it....and if it were me...I would be doing the permit....end result...at the end of the day you know it will end up right AND...should you ever decide to sell the property...and the potential buyer knows his/her stuff and does a permit check....if you don't have permits for it...you would be giving them an out our negotiation edge....
__________________
"The dream is free but the hustle is sold separately."

My 2-Story Addition Build in Progress Link ... My Garage Build Link and My Jeep Build Link
ddawg16 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 12:20 AM   #49
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 30
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Input needed on 240 vs. 120v situation


So the more I Google, the more it looks like doing tandem breakers/quad breaker idea would be the easiest and cheapest.

In the simplest of terms, if I bought two compatible quad breakers I would install one that would handle the current 240v line for my AC and another to handle the new 240v line I will be running for my subwoofer.....and each quad breaker would also handle two separate 120v circuits currently wired in the breaker box, correct?

This would also condense my breaker box down so that I would only be using 6 of the 8 slots in total, right?

Last edited by BigCoolJesus; 04-06-2012 at 12:23 AM.
BigCoolJesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 12:32 AM   #50
Licensed Electrician
 
k_buz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 4,340
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Input needed on 240 vs. 120v situation


We still aren't sure you can use tandems. There should be a type of diagram either on the inside of the panel door or inside the panel.

I haven't seen any tandem 2 pole breakers made for Murray. I know other types (westinghouse/bryant) are made, but I haven't ever seen one for Murray. I will continue to check the web.

How big is this pool house? What are other breakers for? Is it possible to double up some of the circuits in the panel to make room for a true 2 pole breaker?
k_buz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 09:21 AM   #51
JOATMON
 
ddawg16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: S. California
Posts: 7,301
Rewards Points: 132
Default

Input needed on 240 vs. 120v situation


Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
So the more I Google, the more it looks like doing tandem breakers/quad breaker idea would be the easiest and cheapest.

In the simplest of terms, if I bought two compatible quad breakers I would install one that would handle the current 240v line for my AC and another to handle the new 240v line I will be running for my subwoofer.....and each quad breaker would also handle two separate 120v circuits currently wired in the breaker box, correct?

This would also condense my breaker box down so that I would only be using 6 of the 8 slots in total, right?
I don't think it's the slots that they count towards the 6....it's the # of handles....no more than 6 breaker handles.....

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
__________________
"The dream is free but the hustle is sold separately."

My 2-Story Addition Build in Progress Link ... My Garage Build Link and My Jeep Build Link
ddawg16 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 09:32 AM   #52
Licensed Electrician
 
k_buz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 4,340
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Input needed on 240 vs. 120v situation


You are correct. A 2 pole breaker is counted as 1 disconnecting means.

(good catch)
k_buz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 11:07 AM   #53
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 30
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Input needed on 240 vs. 120v situation


The pool house is 14'x19' and is built inside a pole barn. There is an 8'x14' workshop adjacent to the pool room but it does not have any high-powered tools/machines running inside of it.

Breaker switches:
- 240v/30amp for AC
- 120v/15amp for the pool room lighting (four fluorescent ballasts) and a single 120v outlet that is powering the invisible fence we have for our dogs
- 120v/20amp for just the workshop lights (two fluorescent ballasts)
- 120v/20amp for the lights in the barn (three incandescent bulb bases) and two 120v outlets that are powering two garage door openers and an external motion sensor light
- 120v/20amp for four 120v outlets in the workshop
- 120v/20amp for four 120v outlets in the pool room and one external outlet that powers our pond aerator
- 120v/20amp for three 120v outlets in the pool room

It really seems like I could double up a few of the circuits, no?


Also, attached are pictures of the breaker box with the cover off. Sorry k_buzz, but there is no diagram anywhere to be fond. The only information is the sticker I have already taken pictures of.
Attached Thumbnails
Input needed on 240 vs. 120v situation-img_3628.jpg   Input needed on 240 vs. 120v situation-img_0358.jpg  
BigCoolJesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 12:05 PM   #54
Licensed Electrician
 
k_buz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 4,340
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Input needed on 240 vs. 120v situation


First thing is first, you need to turn off that sub panel and install a ground bar. The ground bar gets screwed directly to the case of the sub panel. Then you need to take the ground (bare) wires off the neutral bar and put them to the newly installed ground bar.

After that:
1- 240v/30amp for AC
2- 120v/15amp for the pool room lighting (four fluorescent ballasts) and a single 120v outlet that is powering the invisible fence we have for our dogs
3- 120v/20amp for just the workshop lights (two fluorescent ballasts)
4- 120v/20amp for the lights in the barn (three incandescent bulb bases) and two 120v outlets that are powering two garage door openers and an external motion sensor light
5- 120v/20amp for four 120v outlets in the workshop
6- 120v/20amp for four 120v outlets in the pool room and one external outlet that powers our pond aerator
7- 120v/20amp for three 120v outlets in the pool room

I would splice 3 and 4 together and pigtail to a 20A breaker if you just wanted a new 120V circuit.
k_buz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 12:10 PM   #55
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 30
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Input needed on 240 vs. 120v situation


At this point am I better off paying a certified electrician to add a bigger breaker box that is properly wired? That way I can have space for another 240v breaker plus everything will be proper.......
BigCoolJesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 12:13 PM   #56
Licensed Electrician
 
k_buz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 4,340
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Input needed on 240 vs. 120v situation


It wouldn't hurt to get a free estimate/consult.
k_buz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 01:10 PM   #57
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 30
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Input needed on 240 vs. 120v situation


How much wattage can a 120v/20amp circuit provide continuously if nothing else is running off of it except one device (i.e. - the subwoofer)?

How much (theoretically/best guess) can the same circuit provide for split-second instances?
BigCoolJesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 01:40 PM   #58
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: western Ny
Posts: 1,243
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Input needed on 240 vs. 120v situation


Wow, I see more wrong with that panel than just being full.

Double tapped breaker (lower right)
Double tapped neutral bar.
No floating neutral. Neutral wire not identified
no ground conductor back to main panel
My color blindness may be getting in the way but, is that a colored wire (black) on the neutral bar


I will give the benifit of the doubt that the box may allow for double tapping but unless it explicitly spelled out it is not allowed.

Last edited by danpik; 04-06-2012 at 01:43 PM.
danpik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 02:08 PM   #59
Semi-Pro Electro-Geek
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Arizona, USA
Posts: 2,550
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Input needed on 240 vs. 120v situation


Quote:
Originally Posted by k_buz View Post
First thing is first, you need to turn off that sub panel and install a ground bar. The ground bar gets screwed directly to the case of the sub panel. Then you need to take the ground (bare) wires off the neutral bar and put them to the newly installed ground bar.
Whoa, there! Hold on a minute. This looks like a 3-wire feed, not 4. He can only separate neutral and ground if there is a separate grounding conductor back to the main. Otherwise this would be disastrous - the panel would be ungrounded. A 4-wire feed may not have been required at the time this was installed, in which case a 3-wire feed with neutral and ground bonded is perfectly acceptable.
mpoulton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 02:09 PM   #60
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 30
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Input needed on 240 vs. 120v situation


I am guessing getting a free estimate of wiring a new breaker box is probably the best bet right now.....

BigCoolJesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Reverse Polarity? 120v on coaxial cable shield dogdjour Electrical 8 10-11-2011 09:19 PM
Power 120V Pump from a 240V circuit RoberTX Electrical 26 07-05-2011 11:43 PM
switch from 120v to 240v new breaker popwarfour Electrical 24 04-28-2011 08:17 PM
converting a compressor to run on 120v wizz1022 Electrical 1 05-04-2010 04:30 PM
Pulling 120V outlet from a 240V circuit? npage148 Electrical 12 11-08-2009 11:29 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.