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Old 06-15-2010, 11:42 AM   #1
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Individual Service Entrance Cables


Alright so I know the NEC rules for wire sizes etc... I decided to go with individual service cables for my main service line into my house on a panel upgrade i did. I know NEC wants the cables to be in Conduit all the way basically to the panel but honestly this really isnt possible on my install... does anyone see any reason why a inspector might fail this service entrance for my house? I know its not exactly to code but maybe someone has a recommendation if they think it may fail before i get the inspector out here. anyways thanks for your advice
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Old 06-15-2010, 12:16 PM   #2
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Red tag the moment he sees it.

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Old 06-15-2010, 12:20 PM   #3
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Conduit systems must be complete. No way this should pass.

Is there any reason you could not have mounted the panel over the center knockout in the back?
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Old 06-15-2010, 01:56 PM   #4
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Yea... theres a metal pipe directly behind the center knockout... Alright so I need to somehow complete the conduit this should be fun I am thinking maybe move the conduit a tiny to the left and bring it up some and come straight in through the back that is going to probably be the best chance I have
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Old 06-15-2010, 09:24 PM   #5
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What are the wires exiting the panel to the left through the unprotected knockout?
Isn't this too close to the floor too?

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Old 06-15-2010, 09:31 PM   #6
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I have not worked with conduit myself yet, but is there a reason you can't use a 90 from that conduit to go up into the panel? Also it seems to be rather low from the floor, I would of put it higher, at least at eye level, but that's just me.
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Old 06-15-2010, 09:43 PM   #7
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WHY is that panel soooooooooooooo close to the floor, also is that panel upside down it looks that way in picture?????????. You might have been able to us a LB body and a piece of pipe into the bottom , It will not fly with the inspector that way . Will have to lay down on floor to reset breakers. LOL
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Old 06-15-2010, 10:35 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshvette001 View Post
Alright so I know the NEC rules for wire sizes etc... I decided to go with individual service cables for my main service line into my house on a panel upgrade i did. I know NEC wants the cables to be in Conduit all the way basically to the panel but honestly this really isnt possible on my install... does anyone see any reason why a inspector might fail this service entrance for my house? I know its not exactly to code but maybe someone has a recommendation if they think it may fail before i get the inspector out here. anyways thanks for your advice
NEC doesn't WANT......It is REQUIRED
Honestly it is always possible to be in conduit
If not you use a wire that does not require conduit
I hope you haven't cut the wire at the other end & have some slack
It will not pass, don't even bother wasting your time or the Inspectors

What clamps are you installing where the other wires enter the panel ?
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Old 06-15-2010, 11:44 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by kerry42 View Post
WHY is that panel soooooooooooooo close to the floor, also is that panel upside down it looks that way in picture?????????. You might have been able to us a LB body and a piece of pipe into the bottom , It will not fly with the inspector that way . Will have to lay down on floor to reset breakers. LOL
actually there is no minimum height for a panel. The only thing that would make it not able to be set on the floor is if the area i susceptible to flooding.

and unless the main breaker moves up and down, there is no top or bottom for a panel. In fact, most panels print any tags and such so it can be read if the panel is in either direction.


Josh, you need some serious help. The conduit MUST be continuous from the meter base (presumably) to the panel. The wire you have feeding out the left side MUST be in conduit as well.

It looks a little to close to us an LB where it sets but without actual measurements, that is just a guess. If you can raise that panel enough to fit one of these in there:




it looks like the simplest way to finish that out. I can't find a picture of it at the moment but there is a slip in connector that would fit into the end of that LB through the hole in the panel. That way, the LB fits right underneath the panel. That would require the least moving of the panel.

and where the NM and the GEC go through the tub, you have to use proper connectors there as well.
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Old 06-16-2010, 01:20 AM   #10
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I am with other guys in here and the first thing you will not able pass the inspection like this the inspector will give you a red tag very fast and the inspector will go over the whole thing with fine comb to find all the cuprits.

First thing is you need pretty serious help on this one. this part you just can't really do that kind of fashion like that.

Second thing the induviual service entrance conductors it must be in the conduit there is no extempts on that one it must be in the conduit.

Third you need proper NM clamps on all the NM cables.

Fourth ., you can able move the load centre up a bit or down to get to the back KO opening otherwise the LB will work and redo the NM cables to proper set up.

And the induvuial conductors that went thru the stud on the left side it must be in the conduit and move it diffrent place.

I have see that you have GE load centre be extra carefull with 1 inch two pole breakers if you have them make sure you land in the right spot otherwise you will not get any 240 volts out of the 1 inch two pole breaker.

Oh yeah the last thing you will need to buy the book on resdentail wiring and read them very carefull on how they do it properly.

Merci.
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Old 06-16-2010, 02:20 PM   #11
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What size wire did you use also? It looks like you used 2.5" conduit....that wire looks like its gonna be tough to bend.

Id say an LB, a small piece of pvc to extend it, a TA and locknut should satisfy the inspector.


Also, how is your system bonded/grounded.

Is this your main panel or a subfeed?
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Old 06-16-2010, 03:39 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a7ecorsair View Post
What are the wires exiting the panel to the left through the unprotected knockout?
Isn't this too close to the floor too?
I think the cement is a pony(?) wall with wood to complete it.

WWWWWW
WWWWWW
CCCCCCCC
CCCCCCCC

At least that is what it looks like to me.

Also, are you allowed to mount a panel between studs? I thought they had to be mounted on a surface that is on the face of the studs.

I've seen that in some basements before where they aren't sunk very deep or are walkouts.

Last edited by tdeg807; 06-16-2010 at 03:41 PM. Reason: just thought of something.
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Old 06-16-2010, 03:43 PM   #13
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Woooowww... there are sooooo many things wrong with that picture!

First, call the BI and ask if they would allow a service panel to be mounted 12" off the floor.

IF you are allowed to keep that box at that height, you could probably cut that conduit back and install a vertical sweep. Otherwise I would put in a J box there connected to the conduit, then put a vertical piece of 2.5" conduit in so the wire is inside conduit or box the whole way.

IF you are allowed the height AND you get your service cable protected correctly, pull every other cable you have in there back out. You can't have cables going into a box - ANY BOX - with bare metal edges like that. Little vibrations from the road, railway, or just your deaf son's stereo will slowly abrade the cable jacket against the sharp metal edges of the box.

There need to be correctly sized cable clamps for those wires, like the orange one. The black one going out the side still needs to be inconduit, and conduit need to be linked to the box with a conduit clamp.

You did this whole thing wrong, time to see how it should be done before you go further.
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Old 06-16-2010, 04:13 PM   #14
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There is nothing wrong with mounting the panel between the studs.

Also there is no way to tell from the pic how tall the block part of the wall is. The only thing that shows looks like a standard cap block.
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Old 06-16-2010, 04:54 PM   #15
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I think the studs are on top of a concrete foundation. Not that uncommon. If an LB won't work, why not use a junction box? Pipe into the back, have the face accessible, and use a short nipple between box and panel. Make sure your panel cover won't interfere with the box cover.

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