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kainos 05-30-2011 04:08 PM

incandescent fixtures banned?
I have a question related to the upcoming laws that will effectively ban incandescent light bulbs (at least in their current form). I understand that stores will continue to sell compact fluorescent (CFL) bulbs with both the "old" threaded style base (so they are compatible with existing incandescent fixtures) as well as the "new" 2-prong CFL base. My question is, after the incandescent ban is in full effect, will stores no longer sell fixtures with the "old" style threaded incandescent sockets? I can't stand the light from CFLs (migraines being one of many reasons I hate them), so I am already stockpiling a supply of incandescent bulbs that will last several decades. I'm trying to determine if I also need to purchase any incandescent fixtures I might need for future rennovation projects. Thanks!

gregzoll 05-30-2011 04:55 PM

There is no law stating that Incandescent can no longer be used. Only thing that has been done, is that manufacturing has been stopped on them, so that better efficient bulbs can be manufactured, that use less heat, in turn allows the utilities to charge more, due to people are not using as much electricity. If there is, how are they going to find out if a person is using one, or hoarded enough to last the rest of their life.

The Edison base bulb will be around quite a long time, until they come up with a way to make fixtures throw away, so when they go out, you have to purchase the whole assembly, vs the bulb to recover their costs.

dmxtothemax 05-30-2011 05:23 PM

The es lamp bases will still be around for a long while yet.
Most houses have the es bases for general lighting service,
so most cfls sold will have to be es base.

Australia has already gone thru the banning of incandesant lamps for
general lighting service in houses.

As expected there was much fear and just plain B/S floating
be careful what you beleive as most of it is NOT correct.
Always check your facts,
Even the so called experts were speaking just rubbish.
Find out which government department is handling the matter,
And ask to see a copy of the legislation,
So you can see for your self the real truth!

Daniel Holzman 05-30-2011 05:58 PM

So far as I understand, incandescent lighting includes any form of light that uses a heated wire filament to produce light. This would include traditional bulbs using carbon filaments (ancient technology), bulbs using tungsten filaments (more modern), halogen bulbs, and some special purpose bulbs. So far as I understand, none of these bulbs are banned, there is simply a minimum efficiency requirement. So chill, you will have bulbs you like forever.

dmxtothemax 05-30-2011 06:38 PM

In Australia incandesant bulbs of less than 150w
are a prohibited import.
Lamps above 150w like 150w par 38s,
And larger lamps like 300w and 500w tungsten halogens
are all ok.
It is mainly general lighting service lamps used in homes
that they are intending to phase out.
But now you can buy halogen versions of house hold lamps
as they are more effecient.
But of course they cost more, around $2 to $3 each.
Where normal lamps were 50c to $1.00.
There are still small stocks of lamps around but they will
all disappear at some stage, as stocks run out.

It really is no big deal !

kainos 05-31-2011 08:29 AM

I don't understand the "chill out" argument. That argument, which is being repeated in various forms by the media, goes like this: there is no "ban" on incandescent bulbs per-se. The law simply requires minimum efficiency standards, which incidentally none of the current traditional incandescent (ie, not expensive specialty, halogen, 3-way, etc.) bulbs 40 watts or above meet. But don't be silly & be an evil "hoarder"! The law does not prohibit the theoretical possibility that in the future an energy efficient incandescent bulb will be developed that does meet the requirements. So rest assured, you should simply believe you will be able to purchase bulbs you "like" in the future based on this theoretical possibility of more efficient incandescents being developed. In the mean time, just be happy that you can switch to expensive substitute specialty incandescents, expensive LEDs, or expensive fluorescents that produce light you don't like.

I don't buy that argument at all. I will happily "hoard" the traditional 50-cent incandescents will no feeling of guilt. I will enjoy pleasant, migraine-free lighting in my house.

WillK 05-31-2011 08:37 AM

Minimum efficency standards aren't bans but they are... Carbureators didn't disappear from automotive engine compartments because they were banned, they disappeared because of minimum efficiency standards.

I find that minimum efficency standards regulations are repressive. The only real impact they have is that they price people out of the market or force them into a situation where they must now chose between something they need and something they want - when before they could have had both.

Minimum efficency standards don't make more efficient products, they ban less efficient products. If less efficient products did not make economic sense, the regulation would be unnecessary because market forces would result in the more efficient product cannibalizing demand for the less efficient product.

If you want to see fun, see what happens if the "minimum efficency standard" on car mileage goes to 60 miles per gallon. This is basicly the point where you ban the gasoline fueld engine. The average new car sales price is $28k as it is, and that's with a low end around $13k. What happens if the low end gets tripled? You're effectively cutting automotive sales volumes by 70%.

I hate to get political in this forum, and in the scope of electrical discussions the bulk of regulation is more safety related which is a more complicated economic arguement.

(Consider the state of my house, where the economics of the minimum requirements under 2008 NEC might make the difference between living with everything as it was a necessity, whereas going back pre-AFCI might have been more affordable and achieved most of the safety improvements)

dmxtothemax 05-31-2011 05:13 PM

Looking at it on a purely practicule level,
I would say that, The electricity companies cannot keep up
with the ever increasing demand for electricity,
So they have to come up with ways to decrease the demand for electricity.
One way is to increase the effiency of,
in this case incandesant lamps,
Which as we know are very ineffient.
You have to look at the bigger picture.
It will cause some people some finacial pain,
at least in the short term.
But the long term results will be worth while.

joed 05-31-2011 06:04 PM

I have read that some states are now banning the 100 watt lamp and more to come. The manufactures are now making 98watt lamps.

kainos 05-31-2011 06:42 PM

The schedule I read said that each of the next 3 new year's (Jan. 1) will see the elimination of these wattages of incandescent bulbs:

Jan. 2012: 100 watt
Jan. 2013: 75 watt
Jan. 2014: 60 & 40 watt

My original question is, will stores also be eliminating light fixtures with the threaded incandescent sockets (replacing them with the 2-prong CFL sockets), or will the threaded sockets be available indefinitely?

I just purchased 240 60-watt 5,000 hour incandescent bulbs and will likely make repeat purchases of this same quantity several times before Jan. 2014. I just need to know whether I need to also stock up on fixtures that have incandescent threaded sockets in case the new fixtures come only in 2-prong CFL style in an attempt to force people to use CFLs.

dmxtothemax 05-31-2011 07:19 PM

I would say NO they will not ban es light fixtures,
As most houses will still be using lamps with es base,
Most houses will just use CFLs with an es base.
So es bases will still be in demand.
dont beleive half the B/S that is going around.
I live in Australia, we have already gone thru
what you are now going thru
And there was plenty of B/S flying around here
most of it was just noncence.

kainos 05-31-2011 07:32 PM

I seem to be hearing this same sentiment from many: don't believe the "BS", don't be a hoarder, incandescent bulbs haven't actually been "banned," etc. All I'm saying is that as far as I understand, it is aboslutely true (ie, not "BS") to say that the standard, most widely used, cheapest (50-cent), incandescent house bulbs in the 40-100 watt range will no longer be sold. If that statement is false, than please correct me. Otherwise, if that statement is true, I don't care what other yet-to-be-invented bulbs the media is promising will be developed. I simply want to be able to use the particular bulbs that the government is disallowing. Therefore, I will stockpile.

WillK 05-31-2011 09:25 PM

There isn't anything about banning the particular screw base at this time. There probably isn't any risk of that changing over the next 10 years, but would anyone be surprised if banning the screw base was something that happenned if we kept on this path? It probably wouldn't come in the form of a ban, but with so many circuits required that panels get filled, maybe they require luminaires to be on circuits only for luminaires and limit it to 15A, and you have to count each receptacle as the maximum amps that could be installed - screw bases must be counted as 100 watts while CFL dedicated outlets only count as 26 watts. Sure you can use screw base luminaires if they are able to prevent installation of bulbs with more than 26 watts.

Frankly, I have a hard time believing it would go that far. Prohibition got rolled back, I think if this goes too far it's due to get rolled back too.

If you outlaw incandescent, only outlaws will have incandescents? Maybe there will be a lightbulb making mafia, running secret lightbulb factories... Police will raid them, and dump out barrels of incandescent bulbs, breaking them on the streets to drain into the storm sewers..

frenchelectrican 05-31-2011 09:36 PM

Not only spefic sized indentscent bulbs will be phased out or no longer legit and there are couple size I know in France we are phasing them out and useing halogén bulbs.

Now for instering twist it will affect the liner { straght } flourscent bulbs as well I know the common F40T12 is pretty much out of the main list { there are few still on market with specail colour tempture or specail useage that the only time you will find them but getting limited now }

The F96T12 75 or 60 watt Slimline bulb is pretty much done for it as well.

If you want more detail just look up DOE { Dept of Engery } they will have few good sublinks to cover the details on them.


joed 06-01-2011 08:12 AM


Originally Posted by WillK (Post 658849)
maybe they require luminaires to be on circuits only for luminaires and limit it to 15A, and you have to count each receptacle as the maximum amps that could be installed - screw bases must be counted as 100 watts while CFL dedicated outlets only count as 26 watts.

We have similar code now in Canada. Lighing is only permitted on 15 amp circuits. They are not required to be lighting only however. Also we have a 12 outlet limit per circuit.

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