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Old 05-23-2009, 05:37 PM   #31
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I think my electrician messed up...help!


As Petey stated, the LB is die-cast, and painted gray. I've installed hundreds of them. They look like PVC until you get real close.

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Old 05-24-2009, 03:15 AM   #32
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I think my electrician messed up...help!


The quickest way to see if it was PVC or Diecast is tap { knock } on them but really that is diecast LB.

Merci,Marc
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Old 05-24-2009, 04:16 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by jailbird371 View Post
Not sure about the conduit, but the wire is 3 gauge.
Looking at the LB and the fittings, my trained eye says it is 3/4 inch conduit.

I would make sure all the conduit fittings are nice and tight for a good bond.

However, personally speaking, if a job is done without a permit, I believe it should still be able to pass code, even without inspections.

But that picture is not worth a thousand words; no way to know what is involved on that whole install to really comment on it, other than the huge wires in the 3/4 conduit, but he got them in.
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Old 05-24-2009, 07:53 AM   #34
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I think my electrician messed up...help!


Sure that's not #6ga copper wire? Note the colors. It's unusual to find anything other than black insulation on wire #4 and larger.
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Old 05-24-2009, 08:41 AM   #35
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Looks like 1" to me. The relative size of it compared to the panel itself, or the 2x4's next to it is a good indicator. Also looks like there is plenty of room in the conduit, judging by the size of the opening the wires emerge from.

Also, the wires are larger than #6, and maybe larger than #4. A couple of manufacturers supply wire in continuous colored insulation.
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Old 05-24-2009, 09:10 AM   #36
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NEW PICS.









The conduit run back to the main panel.




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Old 05-24-2009, 10:34 AM   #37
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I think my electrician messed up...help!


Before the new pics, I was also going to say it looked like 1" and #3 to me as well.

Sad he didn't run a separate ground though.
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Answers based on the 2008 & 2011 NEC.
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Old 05-24-2009, 11:07 AM   #38
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Couldn't I run a ground wire in a separate conduit?
How many times must it be said that the conduit is your ground and it is compliant. The conduit must be unbroken all the way back to the panel.
I would have pulled one myself, but it is not required.
Three -#3's and one #8 are compliant in 1" conduit.

Rob. I think the bonding bushing is only required if concentric KO's are present, which I assume the panel does have. Has something changed in 2008 in this regard?
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Old 05-24-2009, 11:10 AM   #39
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How many times must it be said that the conduit is your ground and it is compliant.
I know, but I was just wondering.
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Old 05-24-2009, 11:31 AM   #40
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I think my electrician messed up...help!


Hello all,

Probably should have read all of the posts but I didn't. I just went through this due to an inspection while trying to sell my home. My garage 60amp sub panel was an old install and there was no ground bar in the panel. To bring it up to code my electrician added grounding nuts to both ends of the metal conduit, sub panel and man panel. In the main panel run ground from the nut to the ground bar, in the sub panel added a ground bar and run ground from the nut to the ground bar. Then separated neutral and ground in the sub panel.

Here in my town the sub panel has to be grounded to the main panel and the neutral and ground has to be separated in the sub panel. If the conduit was pvc then a grouind wire would have been installed from the sub panel to the main panel somehow. Luckly my conduit was metal because it was not large enough to pull a ground wire through it.
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Old 05-24-2009, 01:13 PM   #41
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See the terminal strip on the right side? Thats the ground terminal bar/bus.
What conduit. I don't see one.
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Old 05-24-2009, 02:13 PM   #42
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Follow the green wire from the terminal strip to the conduit (you can't see the conduit) and it leads out the back of the box.
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Old 05-24-2009, 05:06 PM   #43
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Here's my $0.02

Looking at the second set of pictures, the KO's on the side panel look to be 1/2 or 3/4 and the person who installed the conduit looks to have punched out his own 1" hole. Also he used a lock ring to secure the fitting. Assuming all of the fittings were wrench tightened, per NEC 2005, 250.92(B) he does not look to be in compliance for bonding of services.
"Standard locknuts or bushings shall not be the sole means for the bonding required by this section."
Many counties / jurisdictions have yet to adopt the latest version of the NEC, but this section hasn't changed (to my knowledge).

That being said, knowing that this sub panel is going to be powering a home theater, he should have pulled a separate ground.

In practice whenever #4 or larger is used, I always install a grounding bushing, but that's just me...
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Old 05-24-2009, 09:21 PM   #44
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Those are not service conductors, they're feeders.

NEC Article 100-definitions;

Service. The conductors and equipment for delivering energy from the serving utility to the wiring system of the premises served.

Feeder. All circuit conductors between the service equipment, the source of a separately derived system, or other power supply source and the final branch circuit overcurrent device.

The service is everything from the utility to the main breaker. Everything past the main is either a feeder or a branch circuit.

250.92 is titled Services, and therefore does not apply to this installation.

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