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I really need help!

7K views 34 replies 9 participants last post by  Stubbie 
#1 ·
I have 5 outlets and 3 light switches in my living room that do not work. I have one outlet in my bedroom that does not. I have one outlet and 1 light switch in my bedroom that does work. What's the problem? I've tried everything that I can think of. There is no GFCI on that circuit. I replaced all outlets and switches. That did not work. I have a non contact voltage tester and it's telling me that I do have voltage in those areas. I have a 3 prong outlet tester and it reads that there is an open hot but I'm not really sure. The one outlet that does work is wired correctly. Are there any other suggestions, please? Thank you!
 
#3 ·
Thanks Gooch!

I went through all of the outlets and switches again and all of the nuetrals seem to be in place and secure. Is there any other way to check? Could there be a possibly be a problem in the breaker box? What about light fixtures? 2 of the switches control hallway lights and 1 the outside porch light. Should I check those?
 
#4 ·
Have you flipped ALL possible circuit breakers completely OFF before flipping them back on?
I am NOT a pro electrician, and of course I have no idea of what you're working with, but I've seen similar circumstances where there was an exterior or interior opposite-wall outlet that had a gfci receptacle that was tripped, causing the rest of a circuit to not function.
Check for a gfci (possibly "hidden" like that) in the wiring somewhere, too, and test/re-set it.
Could be a number of things.
Good Luck!
Mike
 
#6 ·
Is there any event that precipitated the failure? Things usually do not stop working for no good reason. Also, you may have compounded the problem by swapping out the switches and outlets if you didn't get everything back exactly like it should.


I am borrowing this picture from
http://www.selfhelpandmore.com/switchoutlet/basicoutletcomposition/index.htm

It is a common DIY mistake when replacing outlets that, if necessary, the bridge (labeled 4 and 11) are not removed. These are not always removed but are when you have separate feeds for the top and bottom of the outlet (Like when half is switched). If you have your old outlets look at them and see if any have this tab removed.
 
#11 ·
Well, if one or more of the old ones had the tabs removed the new ones should most likely also have the same tabs removed. Any chance you know which came from which location and you can make that change? Once you do at least, if you put all the wires in the same spots, you will be back where you started.

As for multi meters - No need, in my opinion. One of those neon light testes is all you need. Multi meters can be too sensitive for this job.

Hopefully your original problem was just a bad connection or a bad outlet and properly putting in the outlets, configured the same way, will fix your problem.
 
#8 ·
do you have a multimeter??? if so, check voltage between the black wire and ground (bare copper) and the white wire and ground and then test from black to white. Tell us what your readings are after you test that stuff and we can probably tell you what it is. Sounds like an open neutral probably in a junction box somewhere. Probably overloaded the circuit somehow and melted a wirenut off causing the neutrals to open. Nothing will work without an open neutral.
 
#12 ·
configuration of the wires has nothing to do with it. and if not breaking a tab off was the problem, then the breaker would trip. again not the problem. if he was vacuuming when it happened, it is probably a melted wirenut or connection of sometime. Needing to know the voltage on each conductor is a BASIC part of troubleshooting a circuit. the little neon light will still show voltage on the neutral from devices upstream. you need to know voltage. not just if voltage is present.
 
#13 · (Edited)
Okay hbsparky. This is what I got. Hopefully I did this right. I tested each outlet, including the one that is working. The one that works read at 124V. The rest of the outlets didnt even make it to 1. I read them at 00.1 at the highest range and .066 at the lowest range. Did I do that right?

Oh! I should mention that the outlets were all two prong outlets with no grounding wires. Also two of those outlets have 2 hot wires and 2 neutral wires.
 
#19 ·
If the two recs that work are on the same circuit it is not a bad breaker, but it would not hurt to check. Measure voltage from the breaker screw to the ground buss.

What type of wireing system do you have? Describe the wires that run in the walls.

The problem is between the last place or recepitlce that works and the first recepticle that does not work. It could be a broken line in the wall.
 
#16 ·
I'm not going to tell you to do that, but if you decide to that's your own decision as a homeowner. I am going to tell you however to call an electrician to figure it out. It could be any number of things. Melted wirenut, melted line that is open and hot in your attic/walls, etc. I would get it checked out as soon as possible. Sorry I couldn't be of any more help.
 
#17 ·
Does anyone else have any other suggestions? Thanks to those who have replied thus far. I've tried everything that has been suggested so far. No luck. I'm positive that a breaker didn't trip. I'm positive that it wasn't a GFI that tripped. I don't have any GFI's on that circuit. If a GFI tripped it would have to be on that same circuit wouldn't it? As you can see I'm trying not to call an electrian. I know it has to be something simple.
 
#18 · (Edited)
A few questions...how are you getting a receptacle tester to work on two prong outlets? Did you cut the ground pin off? Or are you using an adapter?

If the non-contact tester is showing power at all points on this circuit and the multimeter is showing 124 volts at a working outlet what would make you think the breaker is bad?

You have an open neutral, you will need to locate where it is open or poorly connected.

Since you replaced all non-working outlets you either did not find every box on the circuit or you have something going on inside a wall.

If I was called to your house to find this problem and it wasnt an obvious problem I would start by turning off the breaker, (double check the boxes for power) then removing all the receptacles and light switches and light fixtures on the circuit. I would cap all the wires (except fixture wires) with wirenuts.

NOTE: you must take careful notes of how the original wires are terminated and of any switched receptacles. A digital camera is a great tool to keep track of the connections.

I would then turn on the breaker. Take a non-contact tester and find the box that has power. This will be where power first enters the branch circuit devices. I would then turn off the breaker reconnect all the wires in that box. If it is a receptacle box that power first enters then plug something in after you reconnect and see if it works. If not then problem is on the white neutral wire somewhere between the panel and the first device. Turn breaker off and locate the open. If ok then turn the breaker back on and find the next box with power present in it by using the non-contact tester. It is possible depending on how things are wired that more than one box will get power as you reconnect wires. So check all boxes on the circuit everytime you do this. As soon as you get to a box that does not work properly when reconnected you have isolated the cable that has the open neutral. (between that non-working box and the last working one). On lights both the switch and the light fixture wires will need to be connected.

Hope this helps

Stubbie
 
#21 ·
Okay I've removed all receptacles, switches, etc. I cut the power back on, use the non contact tester and got results from the box which happens to be the only one that actually worked in the first place. Could this be the one causing the problem?
 
#23 ·
Maybe I should mention this. I have 6 outlets in my living room. Of the 6 outlets only 1 works. The 1 outlet that does work is on a totally different circuit than the rest of the living room. The other 5 living room outlets and 2 switches are on the same circuit as the 2 outlets and 1 switch in the bedroom. Does this make any difference?
 
#25 ·
You are not concerned with outlets controlled by a different breaker. These have nothing to do with the branch circuit that has the open neutral. Forget the one outlet on another circuit that works.

Are you sure you have correctly identfied the branch circuit breaker that controls the outlets that dont work?

You mentioned earlier that one of the outlets on the problem circuit works....this isn't the outlet on the other circuit is it?

Stubbie
 
#26 ·
Okay I reconnected the outlet that works (this outlet had 2 blacks and 2 whites). I tested the other boxes and I found 3 with no power. I haven't reconnect those with power just yet. I wanted to mention the 3 that still had no power. Also the ones with no power have the 2 blacks and 2 whites.
 
#30 ·
Okay I reconnected all outlets and switch. I still show power with the non contact tester but still nothing works when I plug them in or turn on switches except for the 1 switch and 1 outlet that had already been working. However, I did forget to check the porchlight fixture that is on this circuit controlled by one of the nonworking switches. I finally checked it and I noticed a green wire that wasn't connected to anything. What is that and what does it mean? Does it have anything to do with this?
 
#31 · (Edited)
The green wire is a safety ground and your wiring doens't have equipment ground so it is unused and meaningless. I am assuming here that you have cables as a wiring method.

JWWhite asked what your wiring method was.... if it isn't cables then what do you have....ie...metal conduit.... knob and tube etc....

You seem to not quite understand what we are trying to do. When you reconnected the working outlet and you say power then showed up in another box or boxes. You should then install the receptacle in the box that showed power and test it to see if it works. If it doesnt then the neutral is open between that box and the one outlet that is working. Do not continue to hook up the other outlets at that point you need to find why the neutral is open. Do the instructions that came with your multimeter explain how to do continuity tests? It is also possible you have a hidden junction box somewhere and in that jb you have a connection failure. At any rate it appears that the neutral is broken in the cable carrying onward power from the first and only working receptacle. If you want to verify you need to do continuity checks on the white wires and see if they show open. But if power shows up everywhere else and nothing works then it is most certainly an open neutral in the cable leaving (carrying onward power) from the working receptacle box.The fact that power is at all the electrical boxes shows you do not have a problem with power getting to the receptacles and switches on the hot wire (black) so its ok. Test the continutiy of the cable leaving the first working receptacle box. You know the black wire is ok so finding where it goes will tell you which white is paired with it. Set the multimeter up for continutiy and turn the power off to the circuit. Disconnect all the wires downstream again.Touch one probe of the multimeter to the black wire in the cable leaving with onward power in that working receptacle box. Now touch the other probe to the black wires of the other receptacle boxes one at a time (you may need to improvise a long length of wire to extend to the other electrical boxes.) Wire nut this wire to a black wire then take the other end to your multimeter. If no continuity then wire nut it to another black wire. Touch the long wire to the other probe. When you show continuity on a black wire then this is the same black wire that originates in the first working outlet. Now set up the white wire that is in the same cable with the black wire in the same manner. See if it shows continuity... if not then it is broken somewhere, it may be in a junction box or nail driven through the cable any number of things.

Some other observations.....you lost power when vacuuming, Closely check the outlet you were plugged into for a poor or loose connection of the neutral white wire. If you replaced that outlet then disregard, do not use backstabs anything that is backstabed move the wires to the screws. Black to brass screws and white to silver screws. Be sure of your wiring if the receptacle is half switched.

Stubbie
 
#32 ·
POOK

I think you should hire this project done and watch the electrican closely. You do not seem to have the grasp of the basic concepts needed to do this on your own.

Next buy a book on residential wiring and read up so that next time you will be prepaired for the situation.
 
#33 ·
Yeah I think I'm gonna just break down and get an electrician. I was hoping this was something really simple, which it probably is for you guys. I just figure that being a first time homeowner I need to learn a few things like this so that I won't have to pay someone every time something breaks or stops working. I'll give myself an A for effort and try to learn more.

Thanks to all that gave input and tried to help!
 
#35 ·
Hello Pook

Jw is probably correct an electrician might be best. I'm sorry if things became a little confusing. It's very difficult to do long distance troubleshooting when we can't see what you have there. I was trying to hope for an explanation you would understand that would lead you to a solution, but to that end I didn't fair very well. There are just to many other things you must understand in order to see the logic in what I was asking you to do.

I agree that you get an "A" for effort and perseverance.

Good Luck

BTW ... if you do try the continuity check remember that continuity is done with the power removed (breaker off).

Stubbie
 
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