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Old 10-08-2011, 04:28 PM   #1
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I dont see how that could be


Hey guys!! How is everyone? I worked a little ot today with a mechanic that I've never had the pleasure of working with. He seemed like he was very knowledgeable until he made a statement that "a gfci wasn't considered a grounded recept". Now this dosent make since to me, so I asked him to explain this, but he couldn't. He just kept saying "trust me on this one". Can anyone explain this if you have any idea what he is talking about, but if you can't, can you at least confirm whether he is right or wrong? Thank you!

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Old 10-08-2011, 04:34 PM   #2
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I dont see how that could be


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Hey guys!! How is everyone? I worked a little ot today with a mechanic that I've never had the pleasure of working with. He seemed like he was very knowledgeable until he made a statement that "a gfci wasn't considered a grounded recept". Now this dosent make since to me, so I asked him to explain this, but he couldn't. He just kept saying "trust me on this one". Can anyone explain this if you have any idea what he is talking about, but if you can't, can you at least confirm whether he is right or wrong? Thank you!
He's potentially right, I guess, in that you are permitted to use a GFCI recept to provide a 3-prong outlet in an ungrounded system in very specific circumstances, but you must clearly mark the recept "as ungrounded," along with any subsequent outlets attached to the load terminals of the GFCI.

That being said, if you install a GFCI recept in a properly-grounded system, it is indeed a grounded recept.

I guess I'd give him partial credit for that, but I wouldn't let him near my house.

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Old 10-08-2011, 04:36 PM   #3
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I dont see how that could be


A GFCI receptacle can be grounded if the ground terminal is connected to a proper ground. What he might be referring to is that a GFCI receptacle can be installed on a ungrounded circuit and still be code compliant (it must be labeled as ungrounded).
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Old 10-08-2011, 04:44 PM   #4
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I dont see how that could be


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A GFCI receptacle can be grounded if the ground terminal is connected to a proper ground. What he might be referring to is that a GFCI receptacle can be installed on a ungrounded circuit and still be code compliant (it must be labeled as ungrounded).
Sorry if im being a pest but can you explain a "ungrounded circuit"? Are you referring to a circuit that dosnt have a proper ground?
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Old 10-08-2011, 04:46 PM   #5
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I dont see how that could be


A GFCI receptacle is like most any other receptacle except that it provides GFCI protection. Though it should be, it doesn’t necessarily have to be grounded, as in the case of replacing an ungrounded receptacle. It’s only grounded if an equipment grounding conductor is attached, and is complete back to the service panel.

GFCI’s don’t need a ground wire to operate. They operate on the principle of sensing the current flow through the ‘hot’ versus the ‘neutral’. If power comes into the GFI on the hot, the same amount should be going back through it on the neutral, otherwise it “thinks” the power is going somewhere it’s not suppose to. An imbalance of 4-6 mA will cause the GFI to trip.

Don’t trust anyone that says “trust me one this one”, but can’t explain it.
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Old 10-08-2011, 04:47 PM   #6
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I dont see how that could be


Ungrounded circuit generally refers to a circuit consisting of a hot, neutral and no EGC. Like a 2-wire circuit you find in older houses.
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Old 10-08-2011, 04:54 PM   #7
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I dont see how that could be


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A GFCI receptacle is like most any other receptacle except that it provides GFCI protection. Though it should be, it doesn’t necessarily have to be grounded, as in the case of replacing an ungrounded receptacle. It’s only grounded if an equipment grounding conductor is attached, and is complete back to the service panel.

GFCI’s don’t need a ground wire to operate. They operate on the principle of sensing the current flow through the ‘hot’ versus the ‘neutral’. If power comes into the GFI on the hot, the same amount should be going back through it on the neutral, otherwise it “thinks” the power is going somewhere it’s not suppose to. An imbalance of 4-6 mA will cause the GFI to trip.

Don’t trust anyone that says “trust me one this one”, but can’t explain it.
I got it clear as day now. Thanks guys!
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Old 10-08-2011, 04:57 PM   #8
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I dont see how that could be


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Ungrounded circuit generally refers to a circuit consisting of a hot, neutral and no EGC. Like a 2-wire circuit you find in older houses.
This is why I am unfamiliar with this. Not familiar with resi work. Therefore I haven't come across any circuits without a EGC unless it's in conduit
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Old 10-08-2011, 04:58 PM   #9
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I dont see how that could be


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This is why I am unfamiliar with this. Not familiar with resi work. Therefore I haven't come across any circuits without a EGC unless it's in conduit
Or BX cable (correction)
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Old 10-08-2011, 05:02 PM   #10
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I dont see how that could be


I know what you're saying, and which of course is your EGC, when it's metal and complete to the panel.

(BX isn't used anymore...replaced with AC or MC)
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Old 10-08-2011, 05:40 PM   #11
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I dont see how that could be


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I know what you're saying, and which of course is your EGC, when it's metal and complete to the panel.

(BX isn't used anymore...replaced with AC or MC)
"Laughing" we have a roll of 10/3 on the job that I'm working on now. We are using it, and it's not my job to say what's right and wrong. My boss tells me to do something and I get it done, simple as that. Besides, he's a whole lot more experienced than me, so I'm sure he is 100% aware of the change.
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Old 10-08-2011, 08:23 PM   #12
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I dont see how that could be


He is only half right !
A GFCI will work without a ground.
But that doesnt mean all GFCIs are ungrounded.
Some are some arnt.
So its a definate maybe !
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Old 10-08-2011, 09:55 PM   #13
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I dont see how that could be


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"Laughing" we have a roll of 10/3 on the job that I'm working on now. We are using it, and it's not my job to say what's right and wrong. My boss tells me to do something and I get it done, simple as that. Besides, he's a whole lot more experienced than me, so I'm sure he is 100% aware of the change.
10/3 BX? Would that be black, white, and red with no EGC? You sure it's actual BX, not MC?
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Old 10-08-2011, 11:07 PM   #14
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I dont see how that could be


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10/3 BX? Would that be black, white, and red with no EGC? You sure it's actual BX, not MC?
MC is what I'm most familiar with. MC has a EGC, BX dosent. Plus the BX is much harder on my rotor split "laughing"
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Old 10-09-2011, 12:59 AM   #15
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I dont see how that could be


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MC is what I'm most familiar with. MC has a EGC, BX dosent. Plus the BX is much harder on my rotor split "laughing"
That old "crunchy" cable will tear your cutting wheel to pieces after awhile.

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