Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 09-10-2011, 09:00 AM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 242
Rewards Points: 150
Default

How to "split" an outlet


Hi,

I'm having an issue in my attached garage where if I'm running my dust collector, the circuit usually blows when it starts up. What I would like to do is add a "split" outlet do the junction box. I think that's what it's called. So basically, I can have two dedicated 20 amp circuits going to that box. Before I do this, I was hoping somebody can verify that what I'm doing is correct.

I have a HomeLine load center with "HOM" type breakers. I'd get a 20 amp double-pole breaker. Run another 12 gauge wire to the outlet, break the tabs off, and that's it.

I can do this because the existing neutral and hot wires are 12 gauge, and I only need to add a third and I can share the neutral. I can share the neutral because in the circuit break box, when you have a double-pole breaker, since they are right next to each other, they use different legs of the alternating current. So essential, you would never have more than 20 amps on the neutral because the electricity is constantly alternating. You would use a double pole breaker because if somebody wants to turn the power off to that outlet, they won't be surprised to see the other half is still live.

So before I do anything, I wanted to run it past the experts here to see if I'm correct or not. I've done electrical work in the past, but I'm no expert.

Thanks!!

wiz561 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2011, 09:05 AM   #2
Licensed electrician
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 7,837
Rewards Points: 2,472
Default

How to "split" an outlet


You would only be able to run a new single wire if you had a conduit system. If you have a cable you would need to new a new cable.

__________________
Answers based on the National Electrical Code. Local amendments may apply. Check with your local building officials.
Jim Port is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2011, 09:27 AM   #3
Electrician
 
SD515's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Near Jackson Michigan Area
Posts: 1,451
Rewards Points: 502
Default

How to "split" an outlet


As Jim said. Then there’s the GFCI requirement with your proposed set-up.

If the wiring method is cable, I’d just pull a new cable from the panel as a dedicated line and use a 20A GFCI receptacle. Then you wouldn’t need a 2-pole breaker, just a single pole.
__________________
Kyle

Just because you can, doesn't always mean you should
SD515 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2011, 09:32 AM   #4
A "Handy Husband"
 
rjniles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: South Carolina Low Country
Posts: 4,178
Rewards Points: 2,266
Default

How to "split" an outlet


A circuit as you describe with a shared neutral is a MWBC (Multi Wire Branch Circuit). All wires of a circuit must be in the same cable. Run a new 12-3 cable.

OR (here I go again Jim Port)

Run a new 12-2 cable, break the tabs on both sides of the receptacle, terminate both the hot and neutral leads separately on the receptacle. Feed both of these circuits from a 2 pole breaker so that both turn off at the same time.

If you have conduit, forget all I have said.
__________________
Location:
Coastal South Carolina
rjniles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2011, 09:36 AM   #5
Licensed electrician
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 7,837
Rewards Points: 2,472
Default

How to "split" an outlet


Quote:
Originally Posted by rjniles View Post
A circuit as you describe with a shared neutral is a MWBC (Multi Wire Branch Circuit). All wires of a circuit must be in the same cable. Run a new 12-3 cable.

OR (here I go again Jim Port)

Run a new 12-2 cable, break the tabs on both sides of the receptacle, terminate both the hot and neutral leads separately on the receptacle. Feed both of these circuits from a 2 pole breaker so that both turn off at the same time.

If you have conduit, forget all I have said.
Now all they need to do is add the GFI protection to a split wired receptacle.
__________________
Answers based on the National Electrical Code. Local amendments may apply. Check with your local building officials.
Jim Port is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2011, 09:39 AM   #6
Electrician
 
SD515's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Near Jackson Michigan Area
Posts: 1,451
Rewards Points: 502
Default

How to "split" an outlet


Garage receptacles require GFCI protection. The 2-pole breaker would have to be a GFCI breaker to be able to do a split receptacle.
__________________
Kyle

Just because you can, doesn't always mean you should
SD515 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2011, 09:46 AM   #7
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 242
Rewards Points: 150
Default

How to "split" an outlet


OK, thanks for the info. I failed to mention that I have EMT and not romex.

SD515 also made a good point too. This *is* a GFCI outlet. I didn't research this, but something makes me think that if two hots feed a GFCI with one neutral, it will constantly be tripping/not work.

I'd like to upgrade my electrical in the garage because I am starting to expand my workshop. I didn't want to go the subpanel route yet, and thought that maybe a split outlet / MWBC might be a band-aid fix until I can get a subpanel. However, with the GFCI's and two neutrals, it might just be easier to run a new conduit for the circuit. But if I do that, I'd rather just get the subpanel and be done with it.

Thanks all for the info. You guys made a great point about the GFCI and something I forgot. Now, just for my own knowledge, if it wasn't a GFCI receptacle, was I correct in explaining everything?

Thanks!!!
wiz561 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2011, 09:51 AM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 242
Rewards Points: 150
Default

How to "split" an outlet


HOLY COW!

A 20 amp double pole GFCI breaker is 211 bucks at our local home improvement store, Menards. Even if it was 100 bucks for the breaker, I don't think I would get it.

Back to the drawing board...
wiz561 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2011, 10:14 AM   #9
Electrician
 
SD515's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Near Jackson Michigan Area
Posts: 1,451
Rewards Points: 502
Default

How to "split" an outlet


What type of box is the receptacle mounted in now? Single gang? 2 gang? Surface or flush mount? Can you change the box easily or pipe out of it to a new location?

If you can stay within box fill and conduit fill limits, you can pull new wires from the panel for a new receptacle through the existing pipe.

__________________
Kyle

Just because you can, doesn't always mean you should
SD515 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2011, 10:18 AM   #10
Licensed electrician
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 7,837
Rewards Points: 2,472
Default

How to "split" an outlet


Quote:
Originally Posted by SD515 View Post
What type of box is the receptacle mounted in now? Single gang? 2 gang? Surface or flush mount? Can you change the box easily or pipe out of it to a new location?

If you can stay within box fill and conduit fill limits, you can pull new wires from the panel for a new receptacle through the existing pipe.
If you have room in the conduit for the additional conductors I would mount another GFI next to the other GFI in a 2 gang ring.
__________________
Answers based on the National Electrical Code. Local amendments may apply. Check with your local building officials.
Jim Port is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2011, 10:22 AM   #11
Electrician
 
SD515's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Near Jackson Michigan Area
Posts: 1,451
Rewards Points: 502
Default

How to "split" an outlet


That's what I was thinking Jim. If it's a 4 square box, use a dual decora type raised cover for 2 GFI's.
__________________
Kyle

Just because you can, doesn't always mean you should
SD515 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2011, 11:56 AM   #12
A "Handy Husband"
 
rjniles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: South Carolina Low Country
Posts: 4,178
Rewards Points: 2,266
Default

How to "split" an outlet


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
Now all they need to do is add the GFI protection to a split wired receptacle.

You Got Me

2 pole GFCI (Big$$$$)


Add a new circuit and a new receptacle next to the existing receptacle.
__________________
Location:
Coastal South Carolina
rjniles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2011, 12:42 PM   #13
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 242
Rewards Points: 150
Default

How to "split" an outlet


Thanks all for the information and ideas.

I think I might try to figure out where the conduit goes and take it from there. I checked, and it's 14 gauge wire, so I'd have to replace it for 20 amp. So many options...


thanks again for the help!!!

wiz561 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Converting switched outlet to unswitched.. Blivit Electrical 8 07-11-2011 08:07 AM
Switched Outlet Issue mjm Electrical 11 01-23-2011 08:41 AM
Changing Two Gang Outlet to Three Gang Outlet vbullinger Electrical 9 01-10-2011 06:13 PM
Wiring a GFCI Outdoor Outlet from an Inside Outlet - Parallel or Series? Pacal Electrical 28 11-13-2010 04:36 PM
"Split" wire in junction box to outlet and light froddan Electrical 6 12-07-2009 12:32 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.