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Old 04-24-2011, 12:08 AM   #16
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How many watts?


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Originally Posted by frenchelectrican
How big this place is ??

Even thru I know you mention most of your appalice are running on gaz supply but do you have big exhaust fan hood ? walk in cooler ? few other variations to add to the list?

the quick way is give the sq footage one way or other we will try something unseen to see if this work.

Do you have alot of light in dinning room or what ?

Merci,
Marc
The space is 2000 square feet. The major power users will be: one 14 x 7 walk-in with one compressor, 10ton HVAC and another 5 ton HVAC, 12 foot hood with MUA and exhaust fan. Fewer than 50 light fixtures, about 50 receptacles (almost all 120v).

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Old 04-24-2011, 12:25 AM   #17
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How many watts?


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Originally Posted by Karlos72 View Post
The space is 2000 square feet. The major power users will be: one 14 x 7 walk-in with one compressor, 10ton HVAC and another 5 ton HVAC, 12 foot hood with MUA and exhaust fan. Fewer than 50 light fixtures, about 50 receptacles (almost all 120v).
What kind of light fixures and what wattage bulb you are using on them ?

For the receptles that part will varies a bit but automatique 2 or 3 circuits easy.

I have to pull put the chart to come up the figures for the receptales espcally in kitchen area that where you get hit pretty hard in that area.

For the HVAC I will come up a figure in a bit. but it kinda univerisal for me but need to know if that is single or triphase unit before I can throw the figures out { they are almost pretty much standardized on the rating so I will be pretty close to it.}

That small of area is not to bad but the service size IMO you may get pretty close to the limit may have to hevey up to 400 beside the apartment may have to upsize as well.

The best answer is if you talk to the electrician and they will able tell you if need to hevey up to 400 or what and the apartment may need upgrade anyway.

Give me a day or two with the figures to see what I come up.

Merci,
Marc
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Old 04-24-2011, 12:39 AM   #18
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How many watts?


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Originally Posted by frenchelectrican

What kind of light fixures and what wattage bulb you are using on them ?

For the receptles that part will varies a bit but automatique 2 or 3 circuits easy.

I have to pull put the chart to come up the figures for the receptales espcally in kitchen area that where you get hit pretty hard in that area.

For the HVAC I will come up a figure in a bit. but it kinda univerisal for me but need to know if that is single or triphase unit before I can throw the figures out { they are almost pretty much standardized on the rating so I will be pretty close to it.}

That small of area is not to bad but the service size IMO you may get pretty close to the limit may have to hevey up to 400 beside the apartment may have to upsize as well.

The best answer is if you talk to the electrician and they will able tell you if need to hevey up to 400 or what and the apartment may need upgrade anyway.

Give me a day or two with the figures to see what I come up.

Merci,
Marc
You are too good!

The HVAC will be triphase. Most of the lights will have 60 watt bulbs on dimmers.

The apartments no longer exist. The two meters that were used for the apartments are not connected to a load center. They are each 30 amp fuse meters. Really old stuff! I wonder if I can use them to power my lighting needs? Hmm, another question for the electrician.
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Old 04-24-2011, 06:36 AM   #19
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How many watts?


Supply the information asked for previosly and a rough load cal can be done.
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Old 04-24-2011, 09:49 AM   #20
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How many watts?


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Supply the information asked for previosly and a rough load cal can be done.
How does this look?
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Old 04-24-2011, 10:03 AM   #21
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How many watts?


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How does this look?
Hmm, a little out of focus. Let's see how this one looks.
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Old 04-24-2011, 10:42 AM   #22
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How many watts?


I find it hard to believe that your 5 and 10 ton AC CU's only draw 1.5 and 5.1 amps respectively? I think you need to check better! You need the nameplate data. Are these AC loads 3-phase or single phase or a combination of both. A 3-phase 10 ton AC CU may require anywhere from 70-125-amp service alone depending on the age and efficiency and commercial loads are calculated at 100% of the actual load (not the breaker size). The 5-ton unit depending on whether it is 3-phase or single phase could need anywhere from 30 to 60-amp service. Also do the AC AHU's have heat? If they do what is the KW of the heatstrips? I didn't look at much of the other loads you described as this hit me right off the bat and could make a big difference in your calculations!

Don't supply information you think might be right, check the actual data.
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Old 04-24-2011, 10:55 AM   #23
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How many watts?


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Originally Posted by sparks1up
I find it hard to believe that your 5 and 10 ton AC CU's only draw 1.5 and 5.1 amps respectively? I think you need to check better! You need the nameplate data. Are these AC loads 3-phase or single phase or a combination of both. A 3-phase 10 ton AC CU may require anywhere from 70-125-amp service alone depending on the age and efficiency and commercial loads are calculated at 100% of the actual load (not the breaker size). The 5-ton unit depending on whether it is 3-phase or single phase could need anywhere from 30 to 60-amp service. Also do the AC AHU's have heat? If they do what is the KW of the heatstrips? I didn't look at much of the other loads you described as this hit me right off the bat and could make a big difference in your calculations!

Don't supply information you think might be right, check the actual data.
Unfortunately I am a layman. I took the HVAC figures straight from the engineers split system heat pump schedule and drawings. I may have taken the incorrect number. There are numbers for RLA, FLA, LRA, MCA and MOCP for both units It's a three phase, 208v, 60hz.

I don't have equipment yet, so I can't get info from nameplates, only from engineer reports.

Thanks sparks1up!
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Old 04-24-2011, 11:18 AM   #24
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How many watts?


You also have a problem with the equipment that is rated for 208 volt if your supply is 240. You are going to have to do one of several things so your supply voltage and load voltage match. If this is used equipment, you have a problem (possibly correctable but still a problem). If this is new equipment, you need to get the equipment to match your power supply voltage.

and then 15 receps @240 volts? Why? Typically a 240 v recep is going to be a specific use outlet. It's odd to have multiple general purpose designated 240 v receps.

convection oven heat is gas, right? electric would be for the circulating fan I presume.

Now you have me curious with the Bain Marie. What kind of food are you intending on serving?
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Old 04-24-2011, 11:22 AM   #25
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How many watts?


Give the MCA and MOCP numbers and mfg of units
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Old 04-24-2011, 11:57 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by nap
You also have a problem with the equipment that is rated for 208 volt if your supply is 240. You are going to have to do one of several things so your supply voltage and load voltage match. If this is used equipment, you have a problem (possibly correctable but still a problem). If this is new equipment, you need to get the equipment to match your power supply voltage.

and then 15 receps @240 volts? Why? Typically a 240 v recep is going to be a specific use outlet. It's odd to have multiple general purpose designated 240 v receps.

convection oven heat is gas, right? electric would be for the circulating fan I presume.

Now you have me curious with the Bain Marie. What kind of food are you intending on serving?
So I need to make sure to buy 120/240 rated equipment. That's reasonable.

Yes, 15 receps at 240 seems too much. I will address it with the electrician.

Yes, convection is gas, yes, the electricity is for the fan.

Ha, Bain Marie is just a fancy water heater that is used to make poached eggs. Looking to make lots of brunch food.
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Old 04-24-2011, 11:59 AM   #27
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How many watts?


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give the mca and mocp numbers and mfg of units
mca 45
mocp 60
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Old 04-24-2011, 12:03 PM   #28
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How many watts?


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Originally Posted by nap
You also have a problem with the equipment that is rated for 208 volt if your supply is 240. You are going to have to do one of several things so your supply voltage and load voltage match. If this is used equipment, you have a problem (possibly correctable but still a problem). If this is new equipment, you need to get the equipment to match your power supply voltage.

and then 15 receps @240 volts? Why? Typically a 240 v recep is going to be a specific use outlet. It's odd to have multiple general purpose designated 240 v receps.

convection oven heat is gas, right? electric would be for the circulating fan I presume.

Now you have me curious with the Bain Marie. What kind of food are you intending on serving?
So an HVAC system that s 208 will not work on a 120/240 system?

I dont know if this helps, but my load center is square d qo430l200, Im not sure of all it's capabilities. Maybe someone has one of these.
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Old 04-24-2011, 12:56 PM   #29
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How many watts?


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=Karlos72;635578]So I need to make sure to buy 120/240 rated equipment. That's reasonable.
no. 120/240 is in itself a specific rating. It would denote a requirement for 240 volt service and 120 volt service at the equipment. You simply want the equipment to match whatever your available supply is.

I understand your point but rather than simply saying yes, I felt the explanation needed to be added. If your higher voltage available is 240 volts, you want equipment rated to operate on 240 volts. If your service provides 208 volts, you want equipment rated for 208 volts. There is some equipment that will have multiple ratings such as 208-230 and other similar designations. That would mean the equipment is designed to operate on either voltage.



Quote:
Ha, Bain Marie is just a fancy water heater that is used to make poached eggs. Looking to make lots of brunch food.
I know what a Bain Marie is. I was just curious what you were using it for. Often times it is used as a slow cooker for foods sealed in a plastic bag. I don't think I have ever seen it used to poach eggs. That would dirty the water I would think.

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So an HVAC system that s 208 will not work on a 120/240 system?
not properly without provisions to transform the 240 volts to 208 (or within tolerances of the equipment).
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Old 04-24-2011, 01:13 PM   #30
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How many watts?


This is not a DIY project here! You need an engineer to do load calcs and panel schedules etc. You can't do that yourself and you wont get a permit without them for a commercial job. Electrical contractors are not even allowed to design 3-phase systems, even if we know how! You have too many conflicting things in your assessment of loads and voltages. While there are many here that are happy to help in the end you're going to have to get an engineer to do the calculations!

And btw, a 200-amp rated panel does not mean the panel is fed with 200-amps and even if it was you are still limited to 80% of that leaving you 160-amps. An engineer will look at not only the panel and loads but also the service feeding this panel. It is not uncommon to see a 200-amp rated panel or even a 225-amp rated panel fed with a 100 or 125-amp service.

Again, you need an engineer!

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Last edited by sparks1up; 04-24-2011 at 01:20 PM.
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