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Old 01-17-2013, 07:57 AM   #16
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How many 4" recessed lights for a 14x22 room?


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Originally Posted by k_buz View Post
4" cans are for accent lighting, not main room lighting.
I agree, in that I don't care for the very narrow beam that they send down. But that seems to be all the rage these days. A friend who's a lighting designer said that's 90% of what he puts in these days. My parents had them put in the kitchen, and the contractor also put them in the adjoining living room; which I agree is a bad choice because it makes light and dark areas. But they like the "look" (which will be dated soon), which doesn't have much to do with function, but aesthetics.

Nobody likes huge fluorescent tubes because they seem "too" diffuse, so they seem to go 180 degrees the other way and get these tiny spot lights everywhere. It's a trend and people like the small point source of light, but I think that's exactly the wrong place to use that type of light. If you want to use those under a counter, fine, but I'd still prefer a fluorescent strip for that use. If you're going for the contrast of light and dark areas (cozy?), maybe 4" cans work for that, but I'd prefer to see everywhere!

I think people have gotten a bad taste for fluorescent lights and are rejecting them subconciously. i.e. 6000k fluorescent 4' strip lights look terrible, I get it, but you don't have to go back to 1920's halogen point source lights to be retro. Sure restaurants want to be cool and use old school filament bulbs, great, I get it, but I want to be able to see when I'm in my house. Get some good color Rendering (>80 CRI) 4100k color temp bulbs and use them evenly distributed and you'd be suprised. I personally only use 4100k bulbs, 3500 isn't terrible, but 5000k just makes it washed out. fluorescents are like plastic, sure you can make cheap c$ap out of them, but you can also make nice things out of plastic; just make sure you're net getting c$ap bulbs. You want to pay 2$ for a CFL? you're gonna get short lived bad light. I just dropped $300 on CFLs from 1000bulbs.com on their TCP brand 4100k, 81CRI, 71 lumen/watt 13w bulbs for the house ~5$ a bulb. I've had them before, they last forever and I like the color.

Sorry for the rant, hope other people find this stuff as interesting as I do

btw, I think that kitchen fltdek did DOES look good, except I don't care for the hotspots that 4" bulbs, I know they aren't "cool" right now, but basically I laid out why I think so above.


Last edited by Ocelaris; 01-17-2013 at 07:59 AM.
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Old 01-18-2013, 04:44 AM   #17
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How many 4" recessed lights for a 14x22 room?


I've bought 4" LED and 6" LED lights and did some comparisons (Home Depot ecosmart). The 4" lights aren't narrow beamed by any means, as the pictures below show, and they had nearly the same average brightness that the 6" ones had. I tested a couple other 4" lights as well and they were essentially the same in terms of dispersion (actually a couple were slightly wider). Maybe some 4" lights are for spotlighting only, or maybe lights of the past were, but not any of these.

Home Depot ecosmart 4" and 6" recessed LEDs, 2700K, ~600 lumens, taken 8 feet from side wall:



4" dispersion. This was taken with an wide angle lens; the room is 15 feet wide:


6" light, which actually has slightly less wide dispersion:
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Old 01-18-2013, 07:22 AM   #18
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How many 4" recessed lights for a 14x22 room?


One thing you'll notice about the ecosmart 4" when using to light an entire room is that it will have a little more glare (vs the ecosmart 6") because the lens is closer to the trim ring.
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Old 01-18-2013, 07:25 AM   #19
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How many 4" recessed lights for a 14x22 room?


If you can get the same/more light from a smaller can, fine. That's great! Then treat them like a 6" can and don't install 9 where 5 would do the job.
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Old 01-18-2013, 09:18 AM   #20
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How many 4" recessed lights for a 14x22 room?


My point about the 4" cans being "narrow" was based on what most people put in those cans which is halogen Par bulbs, i.e. this:



Of course LEDs with different angled lenses may perform better. I REALLY don't like for 2700k bulbs non-continuous spectrum bulbs ,i.e. LEDs or Fluorcescent. I think they're trying too hard to imitate incandescents, when they're totally different beasts. Check out the chart below, incandescents display a continuous spectrum (not straight thought), which renders an object naturally (albeit a bit red compared to the sun). But anything that doesn't "glow" from heat, is using phosphors, LEDs are actually blue with white phosphors. Fluorescents are UV with phosphors. I have seen some terrible interpretations of incandescent 2700k by LED and fluorescent. Anyways, 4100k is the only color bulb that is "legal" on a car with HIDs (many people put cr4p blue bulbs which aren't legal though), and it's a perfect balance of color. Of course not everyone agrees, but I really don't see why people pick such a red/yellow colored light. I'll just put that out there that I used to be a moderator of a lighting forum, so I have quite a bit of background and opinions on lighting!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_temperature







Last edited by Ocelaris; 01-18-2013 at 09:24 AM.
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Old 01-18-2013, 09:34 AM   #21
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How many 4" recessed lights for a 14x22 room?


As a "for instance", we put 8 6" cans ( 4 by 2 grid) in a basement room of almost the exact same size with BR30 bulbs and it is definitely enough light. We would not need any more. We could have maybe got by with 6 lights.

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Old 01-18-2013, 10:27 AM   #22
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How many 4" recessed lights for a 14x22 room?


Quote:
Originally Posted by k_buz View Post
4" cans are for accent lighting, not main room lighting.

It was interesting when I started the layout for the lighting, our original plan was to have less than I installed, much to your suprise as well as mine when I opened up the ceiling, the distances between floor joist in the ceiling were not consistant! In addition, there is hvac vent ducted through it, not to mention cross blocking?? I dont know, I'm not a framer so I can't explain why. Anyhow, to achieve a grid pattern, equi-distant apart, it just happened to work out with using 9 lights.

The kitchen is relatively small, they wanted the most lighting they could get, with the option of toning them down when desired.

I dont think larger cans in a small ceiling would have looked right?

What I do like about these, is that the trims pivot, allowing light to be directed where needed, such as in the corner (much like accenting).

In the end, lighting is much a personal preference. I was lucky to be able to get the lights symmetrical, and my customer was happy as...., more so than they originally had imagined.

"btw, I think that kitchen fltdek did DOES look good, except I don't care for the hotspots that 4" bulbs, I know they aren't "cool" right now, but basically I laid out why I think so above. "

Thanks!
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Old 01-19-2013, 10:54 PM   #23
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How many 4" recessed lights for a 14x22 room?


I did my living room with 8 6" with 13 clf lightbulbs and I could not have been happeier. Now I am going to chnge lightbuls to dimmable ones, soon.

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