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Old 04-17-2013, 05:11 PM   #46
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How is it looking so far?


ok do it in reverse .... code says "HABITABLE"

you paint the walls and carpet the floors


or back on topic ... this is a SHED .. or out building ...

code says ...

210.8(A)(2)

Garages, and also accessory buildings that have a floor located at or below grade level not intended as habitable rooms and limited to storage areas, work areas, and areas of similar use


WHY DO they use the word FLOOR ????

What is significant about the FLOOR ???


so in this "shed" .. if the FLOOR is off the ground 3" , 7" or 10" then would it need GFI for the interior outlets ....and WHY

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Old 04-17-2013, 05:17 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
This is not being contested here. You implied that the whole "concrete floor or not" thing was a code requirement. It is not. Bottom line.

what is said was .... "all depends on what the FLOORING is ......." in response to the posts about whether or not GFI/ACFI's were needed ....

and i stand by that ...we both know that code dances around "things" ...and some things are up to interpretation ..... and specifically the basement and the accessory building are what i was refering to ...
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Old 04-17-2013, 05:19 PM   #48
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How is it looking so far?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly Master View Post
ok do it in reverse .... code says "HABITABLE"

you paint the walls and carpet the floors


or back on topic ... this is a SHED .. or out building ...

code says ...

210.8(A)(2)

Garages, and also accessory buildings that have a floor located at or below grade level not intended as habitable rooms and limited to storage areas, work areas, and areas of similar use


WHY DO they use the word FLOOR ????

What is significant about the FLOOR ???


so in this "shed" .. if the FLOOR is off the ground 3" , 7" or 10" then would it need GFI for the interior outlets ....and WHY
OK. Now quote where it says concrete floor or finished floor.
I'll wait.....
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Answers based on the 2008 & 2011 NEC.
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Old 04-17-2013, 05:37 PM   #49
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How is it looking so far?


LOL ......


if you MUST put GFI's in a basement that is NOT "FINISH" or not habitable ...why ??

210.8(A)(5)

(5) Unfinished basements — for purposes of this section, unfinished basements are defined as portions or areas of the basement not intended as habitable rooms and limited to storage areas, work areas, and the like

Exception to (5): A receptacle supplying only a permanently installed fire alarm or burglar alarm system shall not be required to have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection.




The receptacles in a work area of a basement, as shown in Exhibit 210.12, must have GFCI protection. Section 210.8(A)(5) does not apply to finished areas in basements, such as sleeping rooms or family rooms, and GFCI protection of receptacles in those areas is not required. The only exception to this requirement is for correlation with the performance requirements covering fire alarm power supplies contained in NFPA 72, National Fire Alarm and Signaling Code.



Back to my QUESTION ... the FIRST one ..

what makes it finished ??? and since we are electricians and and deal with electrons .....i dout that the code means finished walls and ceilings ...since this section of code is titled >>>>>

210.8 Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for Personnel.


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Old 04-17-2013, 05:39 PM   #50
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How is it looking so far?


Uhhhh, ok guys do we need some gloves?!?! so my accessory building being 8" above ground on one end and 18" on the other would need gfci outlets? If so, from what i remember as long as the first one I gfci the others on that branch don't have to be right?
Need any afci outlets?

Also a gfci breaker will cover an entire line right? No need for gfci outlets?

I read about tamper proof recpt, what's that junk and will I need these too?!

Da*n all these rules, man Ill be glad when this is done! Couldn't have gotten where I am without you guys so thanks for helping so much!
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Old 04-17-2013, 05:40 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Philly Master View Post
LOL ......


if you MUST put GFI's in a basement that is NOT "FINISH" or not habitable ...why ??

[
Because these are areas that people are more prone to use tools and extension cords with ground pins broken off...
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Old 04-17-2013, 05:42 PM   #52
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since i am new here i just want you to know that i am enjoying myself i love to learn and have fun in my trade ...i carry a code book in the truck always ...and the more an inspector is a stickler and can back it up i like them the best ... I will challenge any inspector to show me the code ....
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Old 04-17-2013, 05:44 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly Master View Post
since i am new here i just want you to know that i am enjoying myself i love to learn and have fun in my trade ...i carry a code book in the truck always ...and the more an inspector is a stickler and can back it up i like them the best ... I will challenge any inspector to show me the code ....
Just keep in mind this IS a DIY forum, and try not to muddy the threads, the simpler basic code requirements given to get the OP on his way is the best approach... if you want to start a discussion then it is best to start a new thread than carry on a debate on someone else's thread.
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Old 04-17-2013, 05:44 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Lupus71 View Post
Uhhhh, ok guys do we need some gloves?!?! so my accessory building being 8" above ground on one end and 18" on the other would need gfci outlets? If so, from what i remember as long as the first one I gfci the others on that branch don't have to be right?
Need any afci outlets?

Also a gfci breaker will cover an entire line right? No need for gfci outlets?

I read about tamper proof recpt, what's that junk and will I need these too?!

Da*n all these rules, man Ill be glad when this is done! Couldn't have gotten where I am without you guys so thanks for helping so much!

IMHO ..NO none inside .....

but one outside .... with an IN-USE cover on it ..
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Old 04-17-2013, 05:47 PM   #55
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I fixed it for you.


Quote:
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IMHO ..NO none inside .....

but IF you install one outside, than it must be GFCI protected. .... with an IN-USE cover on it ..
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Old 04-17-2013, 05:49 PM   #56
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Because these are areas that people are more prone to use tools and extension cords with ground pins broken off...
the ground pin has nothing to do with the operation of a GFI outlet ....that is why you can use them in a 2 wire system ...

here is a question ... FUN one ..

your standing in a bathtub full of water.... naked ... you put your right hand "IN" the neutral side of the GFI ...and your Left hand in the Hot side ( for the DIY ) would the GFI trip ...or would you get electrocuted ??
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Old 04-17-2013, 05:50 PM   #57
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I fixed it for you.
... your are right ...
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Old 04-17-2013, 05:51 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly Master View Post
the ground pin has nothing to do with the operation of a GFI outlet ....that is why you can use them in a 2 wire system ...
And I never said it was required for the operation of a GFCI to operate...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly Master View Post
here is a question ... FUN one ..

your standing in a bathtub full of water.... naked ... you put your right hand "IN" the neutral side of the GFI ...and your Left hand in the Hot side ( for the DIY ) would the GFI trip ...or would you get electrocuted ??

Again, start a new thread if you want these types of comments answered.
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Old 04-17-2013, 05:56 PM   #59
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[QUOTE=stickboy1375;1161386]And I never said it was required for the operation of a GFCI to operate...



it was the response to your answer to me .....that leave the question unanswered


if you MUST put GFI's in a basement that is NOT "FINISH" or not habitable ...why ??

[ Because these are areas that people are more prone to use tools and extension cords with ground pins broken off...
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Old 04-17-2013, 05:59 PM   #60
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[QUOTE=Philly Master;1161394]
Quote:
Originally Posted by stickboy1375 View Post
And I never said it was required for the operation of a GFCI to operate...



it was the response to your answer to me .....that leave the question unanswered


if you MUST put GFI's in a basement that is NOT "FINISH" or not habitable ...why ??

[ Because these are areas that people are more prone to use tools and extension cords with ground pins broken off...
AND???

In a finished off area, you are not likely to be using the same type of damaged tools and extension cords, where as an unfinished basement has more probability that you will.


Last edited by stickboy1375; 04-17-2013 at 06:01 PM.
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