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Old 04-17-2013, 08:24 AM   #31
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How is it looking so far?


I prefer running my wire on a running board above the framing not below it in case they decide to finish it off and I put the boxes so they will be flush with drywall. I have a job coming up that someone else did and all the receptacle and switch outlets have to have extension boxes on them because they are flush with the framing and not the drywall.

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Old 04-17-2013, 09:10 AM   #32
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How is it looking so far?


1. The outlet boxes should extend out 1/2 inch beyond framing.
2. Why didn't you put a runner on top of the lower chord and staple the
wire to the top of the runner?
3. Why is there a hole in the end of the wire nuts with a ground wire coming through it?
4. There is too much sheathing left inside the boxes.
5. Conductors are not cut even at about 8 inches outside the box.
6. You should leave about 4 feet in the sub panel to neatly run the incoming wires.

Of course some of these are simply preferences, based on experience.
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Old 04-17-2013, 12:09 PM   #33
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How is it looking so far?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly Master View Post
so in the example i used ...

unfinished basement ... concrete floor ..you use GFI outlets ... correct ...
The point is your opinion and the wording of the code are two different things here.
I have seen plenty of finished rooms with polished concrete floors, and the code makes NO mention of what is on the floor with regard to finished or unfinished.
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Old 04-17-2013, 12:09 PM   #34
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How is it looking so far?


So I can use a metal box as long as the nm and mc have the correct clamp?
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Old 04-17-2013, 01:05 PM   #35
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How is it looking so far?


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So I can use a metal box as long as the nm and mc have the correct clamp?
Yes, and you bond the box.
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Old 04-17-2013, 02:41 PM   #36
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How is it looking so far?


Quote:
3. Why is there a hole in the end of the wire nuts with a ground wire coming through it?
So you can attach the ground wire to the grounding screw(s), no pig tail required.
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Old 04-17-2013, 02:56 PM   #37
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How is it looking so far?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
The point is your opinion and the wording of the code are two different things here.
I have seen plenty of finished rooms with polished concrete floors, and the code makes NO mention of what is on the floor with regard to finished or unfinished.
what makes a room "FINISHED" ? in relationship to Electrocution ??

why do you need a GFI in a basement that is unfinished ....

do the walls and ceiling being finished with DRYWALL help the Electrocution hazards in any way shape or form ??

every other place that needs a GFI has a concrete floor or water.
210.8 (A) (2)

so when you read the CODE .... 210.8(A)(5) what makes it finished ??
( habitable ..LOL )

YES in IMHO ... the easy way is the floor finish ...LOL
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Last edited by Philly Master; 04-17-2013 at 02:59 PM.
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Old 04-17-2013, 03:16 PM   #38
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How is it looking so far?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly Master View Post
what makes a room "FINISHED" ? in relationship to Electrocution ??

why do you need a GFI in a basement that is unfinished ....

do the walls and ceiling being finished with DRYWALL help the Electrocution hazards in any way shape or form ??

every other place that needs a GFI has a concrete floor or water.
210.8 (A) (2)

so when you read the CODE .... 210.8(A)(5) what makes it finished ??
( habitable ..LOL )

YES in IMHO ... the easy way is the floor finish ...LOL
Here is the 2011 NEC code references I don't see anything requiring a finished floor.

210.8(A)(2)

(2) Garages, and also accessory buildings that have a floor
located at or below grade level not intended as habitable
rooms and limited to storage areas, work areas, and
areas of similar use

210.8(A)(5)

(5) Unfinished basements for purposes of this section,
unfinished basements are defined as portions or areas of
the basement not intended as habitable rooms and lim-
ited to storage areas, work areas, and the like
Exception to (5): A receptacle supplying only a perma-
nently installed fire alarm or burglar alarm system shall not
be required to have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protec-
tion.
Informational Note: See 760.41(B) and 760.121(B) for
power supply requirements for fire alarm systems.
The receptacles in a work area of a basement, as shown in
Exhibit 210.12, must have GFCI protection. Section
210.8(A)(5) does not apply to finished areas in basements,
such as sleeping rooms or family rooms, and GFCI protec-
tion of receptacles in those areas is not required. The only
exception to this requirement is for correlation with the per-
formance requirements covering fire alarm power supplies
contained in NFPA 72, National Fire Alarm and Signaling
Code.
Receptacles installed under the exception to
210.8(A)(5) shall not be considered as meeting the re-
quirements of 210.52(G).
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Old 04-17-2013, 03:21 PM   #39
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How is it looking so far?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly Master View Post

what makes a room "FINISHED" ? in relationship to Electrocution ??


why do you need a GFI in a basement that is unfinished ....

do the walls and ceiling being finished with DRYWALL help the Electrocution hazards in any way shape or form ??

every other place that needs a GFI has a concrete floor or water.
210.8 (A) (2)

so when you read the CODE .... 210.8(A)(5) what makes it finished ??
( habitable ..LOL )

YES in IMHO ... the easy way is the floor finish ...LOL
Quote:
Originally Posted by rrolleston View Post
Here is the 2011 NEC code references I don't see anything requiring a finished floor.
so you did not answer the questions either ...
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Old 04-17-2013, 03:54 PM   #40
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How is it looking so far?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly Master View Post
so you did not answer the questions either ...
Not trying to answer any questions just showing you the references you posted have nothing to do with floor coverings.

A finished room in building is insulated and Sheetrock walls and ceilings. I don't have a code reference with for it but I do know it does not take a floor covering to change whether a room is finished or not.
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Old 04-17-2013, 04:05 PM   #41
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How is it looking so far?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly Master View Post
what makes a room "FINISHED" ? in relationship to Electrocution ??

why do you need a GFI in a basement that is unfinished ....

do the walls and ceiling being finished with DRYWALL help the Electrocution hazards in any way shape or form ??

every other place that needs a GFI has a concrete floor or water.
210.8 (A) (2)

so when you read the CODE .... 210.8(A)(5) what makes it finished ??
( habitable ..LOL )

YES in IMHO ... the easy way is the floor finish ...LOL
You do realize that most commercial buildings have concrete floors, right?

Last edited by stickboy1375; 04-17-2013 at 04:23 PM.
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Old 04-17-2013, 04:21 PM   #42
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How is it looking so far?


Drywalled walls are my deciding factor.
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Old 04-17-2013, 04:54 PM   #43
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How is it looking so far?


Quote:
Originally Posted by stickboy1375 View Post
You do realize that most commercial buildings have concrete floors, right?
this is residential ...

commercial buildings do not require ACFi or tamperproof outlet either ...
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Old 04-17-2013, 04:56 PM   #44
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How is it looking so far?


really how would you answer these two ...

why do you need a GFI in a basement that is unfinished ....

do the walls and ceiling being finished with DRYWALL help the Electrocution hazards in any way shape or form ??
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Old 04-17-2013, 05:08 PM   #45
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How is it looking so far?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly Master View Post
really how would you answer these two ...

why do you need a GFI in a basement that is unfinished ....

do the walls and ceiling being finished with DRYWALL help the Electrocution hazards in any way shape or form ??
This is not being contested here. You implied that the whole "concrete floor or not" thing was a code requirement. It is not. Bottom line.

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