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Old 06-08-2009, 12:56 AM   #1
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How do I fish the power cable without breaking backsplash


Hi all,
I have few questions while I tried to install under cabinet lighting.
OK, please check the pictures.







I tried to drill a hole on a finish kitchen backsplash and fish a cable to the power box. However, how do I drill a BIG hole without breaking the backsplash? Also, there are insulation inside the wall which is hard to fish the cable even there are only 7" from the hole to the power box. I tried to remove the power box, but the builder used glue to install it. What should I do? any suggestion?

The worse case is I have to break few backsplash in order to install the power cable, what is the best way to break the backsplash to minimize the damage? Also, after I install the cable, how to I put back the drywall?

Thanks for all the suggestion.

Dan


Last edited by Uncledan; 06-08-2009 at 12:59 AM.
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Old 06-08-2009, 01:40 AM   #2
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How do I fish the power cable without breaking backsplash


You might be able to use something like this:

http://electrical.about.com/od/elect...a/fishtape.htm

Feed it through the new hole to box and then pull the new cable up to the hole.

If you need to remove the tile, use a grout saw to go around the tiles you need to remove. Then if you're careful, you may get them off without breaking them. Clean them up, reuse and regrout.


Last edited by Kap; 06-08-2009 at 01:49 AM.
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Old 06-08-2009, 04:25 AM   #3
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How do I fish the power cable without breaking backsplash


Dan, Can you get identical replacement tile? If so you would also be able to replace the single gang box with a two gang box.

Good job on the pic and the annotation. Can you add annotation as to where the "big hole" will be?

Carbide Grit hole saws for tile are available in a range of different sizes e.g.
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=213195-28303-12152.0&lpage=none&cm_mmc=search_gps-_-gps-_-gps-_-LENOX%201-1/4"%20Carbide%20Grit%20Arbored%20Hole%20Saw%20Drill %20Bit
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Old 06-08-2009, 07:51 AM   #4
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How do I fish the power cable without breaking backsplash


Take the wires up a little higher drill a big hole in the back of the cabinet fish wires into cabinet then down to lights.

Install a piece of wood to cover hole in cabinet all sawing, fishing, hole making inside cabinet and hidden from view.

Just make sure it is covered properly.
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Old 06-08-2009, 08:03 AM   #5
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How do I fish the power cable without breaking backsplash


You cannot use the small appliance countertop circuits for your lighting loads. You will need to find another source for your power.
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:30 AM   #6
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How do I fish the power cable without breaking backsplash


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
You cannot use the small appliance countertop circuits for your lighting loads. You will need to find another source for your power.
I find that there a circuit directly connect that power box only, does it give enough power for under cabinet lighting?

I still have 50 more identical replacement tiles, so breaking few should not be a problem.

Actually, I am worry about even I am able to drill a hole (around 3/4" big), I am still not able to fish the power cable into the power box, because:
1. the power box only have a small opening (check picture)
2. there are insulation to make it difficult to fish the cable

As you guys suggested, I may consider to break few tile and replace the new one, HOWEVER, how do I regrout the tile without the drywall support inside?
Once I start to break the tile, I have to cut the wall until I see the insulation. Then I have to repair the drywall before I able to put the tile back. But how do I replace the drywall since that area is surround by tile?
Do you guys understand what I mean?

Please check pictures below:



Last edited by Uncledan; 06-08-2009 at 09:33 AM.
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:34 AM   #7
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How do I fish the power cable without breaking backsplash






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Old 06-08-2009, 09:35 AM   #8
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How do I fish the power cable without breaking backsplash


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Old 06-08-2009, 11:54 AM   #9
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How do I fish the power cable without breaking backsplash


In the top of the existing box you will see a knock out. Pry this slug out and you are left with a 7/8" hole. Push something like a hanger or fish tape up and see if it's clear. Then drill a hole in the tile with a masonry hole saw. Put your new box against the wall and trace it out. Cut the rectangular hole. Take a section of the cable and push it up and grab it with needle nose pliers. Attach a NM connector to the cable and secure it into the new box. Push box in and secure. You will need a box designed to be self securing or use "Mallory" straps.

Like Jim said. You cannot mix lighting and small appliance circuits together in a kitchen. While in my opinion it is safe, it is a violation of the code.
Personally I would do it in my house, but not in yours.
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Old 06-08-2009, 12:04 PM   #10
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How do I fish the power cable without breaking backsplash


I have never heard of a box being glued. THIS IS AN OUTSIDE WALL, ARE YOU SURE IT DOES NOT CONTAIN SPRAY FOAM INSULATION?. If it does your wire will be very difficult to fish.
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Old 06-08-2009, 12:51 PM   #11
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How do I fish the power cable without breaking backsplash


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Originally Posted by Chemist1961 View Post
I have never heard of a box being glued. THIS IS AN OUTSIDE WALL, ARE YOU SURE IT DOES NOT CONTAIN SPRAY FOAM INSULATION?. If it does your wire will be very difficult to fish.
I am pretty sure my builder is using those PINK insulation and not the spray foam insulation.
I will buy a masonry hole saw and fish tape tonight, then give it a try.
Man, I can not believe fishing that 7" cable can be THAT complicated.
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Old 06-08-2009, 01:00 PM   #12
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How do I fish the power cable without breaking backsplash


What I meant is are you confusing spray foam with glue. The spray is highly adhesive and could appear to be bubbling into your j box, like glue.
If your wall is wrapped on the exterior with rigid foam you should have clearnce behind that jbox. I would carefully work something thin around the edge of the box before I messed with cutting the tile.
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Old 06-08-2009, 01:01 PM   #13
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How do I fish the power cable without breaking backsplash


Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncledan View Post
Man, I can not believe fishing that 7" cable can be THAT complicated.
That's what I keep saying! Man, I chose the wrong career. Why did I become an electrician? According to alot of people, especially DIY'rs, all things electrical just cannot be that complicated. I'm surprised the industry exists at all. I mean, hell, it's just wires. As long as it works, it's good, right?
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Old 06-08-2009, 01:08 PM   #14
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How do I fish the power cable without breaking backsplash


P.S.: I'm just a useless electrician, so I probably don't know what I'm doing, but I would take a 1/2" spade bit and drill a hole in the top of the plastic box. Then, I would cut a hole in the back of the upper cabinet big enough to get my hand in. Then, I'd get my wire in place easily, and using a 3/8" tile drilling bit, drill a hole in the tile where I needed it, and stick my wire in. To finish off, I might use a low voltage cut-in ring in the hole I cut in the cabinet and put a black cover on it to close the hole.

If I cared a little more, I'd secure the piece of cabinet back in place with some nice 3/4" trim. But, carpentry work is too complicated for an electrician who's used to doing easy electrical work.
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Old 06-08-2009, 01:53 PM   #15
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How do I fish the power cable without breaking backsplash


Depending on the outside sheathing and finish material, I've been known to do this sort of thing mainly from the outside. Removing and replacing a sheet of T-111 is 35 minutes work total and then it's all there in front of you (though backwards ). Even if you have to remove and replace some window trim, it's not a big deal. But if you have lapped siding over plywood, or are 20 ft above grade, forget it.

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