Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-08-2014, 04:39 PM   #1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 2
Rewards Points: 10
Default

House grounding wire near/touching gas pipe. Safe?


I just purchased this house, and I was taking down some of the ceiling in the basement. The electric panel is grounded to the water pipe. The water pipe is approximately 20 feet away from the panel in the basement. The grounding wire is stapled to the joists, and runs along the main gas line. There are some spots the grounding wire touches the gas line and is very close.

I am assuming this is not safe and want to reroute the grounding wire. How far does it need to be away from the gas line? The gas line is iron/steel pipe. House was built in 1950s.

CardCoder502 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2014, 04:59 PM   #2
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: western Ny
Posts: 1,247
Rewards Points: 508
Default

House grounding wire near/touching gas pipe. Safe?


perfectly safe. The gas is on the inside of the pipe.

Curious, what makes you think this is unsafe?

danpik is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2014, 05:16 PM   #3
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 2
Rewards Points: 10
Default

House grounding wire near/touching gas pipe. Safe?


Quote:
Originally Posted by danpik View Post
perfectly safe. The gas is on the inside of the pipe.

Curious, what makes you think this is unsafe?
I was not sure really. If the ground wire were to become energized, it would seek the closest path to ground/earth... right? So it would potentially discharge through the natural gas line to earth, since that exit is a quicker route then traveling the distance to the waterline entrance.

Is that right? I am just trying to learn/understand how this works. By no means am I proficie t in electric or gas work.
CardCoder502 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2014, 05:40 PM   #4
Licensed electrician
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 7,684
Rewards Points: 2,166
Default

House grounding wire near/touching gas pipe. Safe?


The gas line should be bonded to your panel either by the EGC run in the circuit or an external bond to the pipe.
__________________
Answers based on the National Electrical Code. Local amendments may apply. Check with your local building officials.
Jim Port is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2014, 05:44 PM   #5
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 293
Rewards Points: 258
Default

House grounding wire near/touching gas pipe. Safe?


Somewhere along that gas line there is likely a deliberate connection between the gas line and the grounding wire (i.e. the gas line is bonded to your house ground). Rather than think about what happens if the ground becomes energized (hint: current should flow to ground through the wire), think about what happens if the gas line becomes energized (you want it bonded to the ground wire so that this current is dissipated).

EDIT: Jim beat me to it.

Last edited by JKeefe; 01-08-2014 at 05:51 PM.
JKeefe is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to JKeefe For This Useful Post:
danpik (01-08-2014)
Old 01-08-2014, 05:47 PM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: western Ny
Posts: 1,247
Rewards Points: 508
Default

House grounding wire near/touching gas pipe. Safe?


Quote:
Originally Posted by CardCoder502 View Post
I was not sure really. If the ground wire were to become energized, it would seek the closest path to ground/earth... right? So it would potentially discharge through the natural gas line to earth, since that exit is a quicker route then traveling the distance to the waterline entrance.

Is that right? I am just trying to learn/understand how this works. By no means am I proficie t in electric or gas work.
electricity does not chose a quicker (shorter ) route. It choses all routes. In this case it would use both paths to ground.

This is an overly simplified answer by the way.

Stick, Jim and k-buz have written several posts on this that can explain it better than I can. I understand it, just can't seem to write it down very well.
danpik is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2014, 07:19 PM   #7
Licensed electrician
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 7,684
Rewards Points: 2,166
Default

House grounding wire near/touching gas pipe. Safe?


By bonding the gas and water lines you are ensuring that they are at the same potential as other parts,of the system so they do not carry any voltage.
__________________
Answers based on the National Electrical Code. Local amendments may apply. Check with your local building officials.
Jim Port is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2014, 07:56 PM   #8
JOATMON
 
ddawg16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: S. California
Posts: 7,471
Rewards Points: 2,286
Default

House grounding wire near/touching gas pipe. Safe?


FYI....it is impossible to ignite the gas 'inside' the gas pipe. You also need air...translation...O2. In a pure gas environment, it can't ignite.
__________________
"The dream is free but the hustle is sold separately."

My 2-Story Addition Build in Progress Link ... My Garage Build Link and My Jeep Build Link
ddawg16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2014, 07:56 PM   #9
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 159
Rewards Points: 93
Default

House grounding wire near/touching gas pipe. Safe?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
The gas line should be bonded to your panel either by the EGC run in the circuit or an external bond to the pipe.
Were not allowed to do that around here, although, I think it's better to do it
Cletis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2014, 07:59 PM   #10
Licensed electrician
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 7,684
Rewards Points: 2,166
Default

House grounding wire near/touching gas pipe. Safe?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cletis View Post
Were not allowed to do that around here, although, I think it's better to do it
So what happens to the bond created by the EGC? Is that not allowed?
__________________
Answers based on the National Electrical Code. Local amendments may apply. Check with your local building officials.
Jim Port is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2014, 08:20 PM   #11
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 159
Rewards Points: 93
Default

House grounding wire near/touching gas pipe. Safe?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
So what happens to the bond created by the EGC? Is that not allowed?
we are only allowed to bond the egc via branch cir to device which is connected to the csst or hardpipe, but, if their is csst going to something that doesn't require power (branch cir.) we cannot bond to it. Ex. My furnace is gas and has a 120V line with egc bonded to metal of furnace hence the whole gas pipe is bonded, BUT, I cannot take a bonding jumper from main ground/neutral bar directly to gas line anymore. I think we did it til the 80's then at some point it was banned. It makes no sense at all to me but the AHJ does what they want
Cletis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2014, 08:40 PM   #12
Licensed electrician
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 7,684
Rewards Points: 2,166
Default

House grounding wire near/touching gas pipe. Safe?


Your AHJ may want to check out the gas code rules for bonding, especially concerning CSST.
__________________
Answers based on the National Electrical Code. Local amendments may apply. Check with your local building officials.
Jim Port is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Jim Port For This Useful Post:
stickboy1375 (01-10-2014)
Old 01-08-2014, 09:19 PM   #13
Licensed electrician
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 7,684
Rewards Points: 2,166
Default

House grounding wire near/touching gas pipe. Safe?


Quote:
Originally Posted by JKeefe View Post
.

EDIT: Jim beat me to it.
It took you longer to type your answer since you expanded on what I said. It's all good.
__________________
Answers based on the National Electrical Code. Local amendments may apply. Check with your local building officials.
Jim Port is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2014, 05:50 AM   #14
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Virginia
Posts: 454
Rewards Points: 254
Default

House grounding wire near/touching gas pipe. Safe?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cletis View Post
Were not allowed to do that around here, although, I think it's better to do it
And that shows how stupid someone is at the public utility. As noted above somewhere in there house that gas line connects to an appliance and that appliance will be grounded one way or another, furnace - fan circuit, dryer - motor circuit……………………
Know A Little is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2014, 06:35 AM   #15
Licensed Electrician
 
k_buz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 4,340
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

House grounding wire near/touching gas pipe. Safe?


Incoming water (usually) is bonded, thus the water heater is bonded. If it's electric, it also (should) have an EGC.

I posted in a Cletis thread.

__________________
__________________________________________________ ______________
Answers based on the National Electric Code. Always check local amendments.


k_buz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Deep Pipe Clog - Epic Battle Digi Plumbing 37 02-02-2013 11:48 AM
GFCI vs Grounding a two wire house Joeboo25 Electrical 30 01-03-2013 02:29 PM
Cutting and gluing PVC pipe to washer steve3847 Plumbing 8 10-03-2012 08:00 AM
Is my house adequately grounded, and what does that mean? lmark103 Electrical 6 09-15-2012 01:51 PM
grounding of main panel and sub panel in older house linkysys Electrical 2 10-01-2009 04:34 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.