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Old 07-13-2010, 01:30 PM   #16
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Hot white wire joined to neutral wires!


Ok, well I don't think you put together a circuit again that is showing a hot white joined to other neutrals without sorting it out. Also, this was only one problem on this circuit. The switch was also connected to a hot wire that I traced back to a junction box in which hots from two difference circuits were joined, which explains why one breaker killed the light, but power was still going to the switch from a separate circuit! And the junction box was also tied to some old K&T that was looping back toward the panel and was left with a couple of old live knob and tube wires chopped off loose in the ceiling with the wires just taped! So, just marretting everything back together and closing up the junction box and switch because it was working before seems to be pretty unethical. I've found some serious problems here and I want to know whether in the mean time putting a wire nut on the end of the hot white and separating it from the other whites is the safest way to reduce fire risk. I've already disconnected everything else from the problematic junction box; so all I want to know about is whether, given that it is potentially unsafe to have a hot white joined to the other whites I should isolate that wire and put a wire nut and tape on it until this can be solved. Thanx for your input.

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If everything was working properly before you made the change, why are you trying to disassemble the circuit? It still does not sound like you understand what has been explained to you.

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Old 10-03-2012, 08:15 PM   #17
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Hot white wire joined to neutral wires!


I too have a very similar problem. Was curious if you solved your issue?

I have two circuits running to a double switch box. One circuit controls a ceiling light and it works fine.

The other side of the box has 3 sets of wires in it - each set has a black, a white and a ground. The grounds are all connected in a wire nut and attached to the metal electrical box.

Originally two sets of white/black wires ran to a double switch. It had the tab removed (so it could split into 2 circuits itself?). One set of white/black wires went to the line/load terminals on top if switch, and another set of white/black wires went to the other line/load terminals on bottom of switch. Only one switch worked at the time and it was for another ceiling light. The third set of black/white wires were pushed in box and not used. They were run into attic presumably for future ceiling vent (this is a bathroom).

I installed the ceiling vent, attached the third set of wires to it, and replaced the switch with a new double switch with the tab not removed. I ran the line black to the gold hot terminal, and connected the other two black lines to the load silver terminals, and connected all 3 white neutrals together. This did not work. Ended up the only wire of the six providing any voltage was one of the white wires. I measured at 122.5 volts.

I switched this white and black wires, and still same problem.

The problem is I get a weak current sent off of one of the switches that goes to both the ceiling fan and the ceiling light at the same time. Light barely lights, and fan barely moves. No juice runs through the other switch.

Is this wired correctly inside the box presuming the wires are what i think they are? What else could be the problem?

Thanks

Last edited by BusterT; 10-03-2012 at 08:18 PM.
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Old 10-03-2012, 09:02 PM   #18
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Hot white wire joined to neutral wires!


This thread is two years old; you should probably start a new one.

MODS: Why don't old threads auto-lock on this forum? That would solve this recurring problem of resurrecting ancient zombie threads.
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Old 10-04-2012, 06:55 AM   #19
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Hot white wire joined to neutral wires!


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This thread is two years old; you should probably start a new one.

MODS: Why don't old threads auto-lock on this forum? That would solve this recurring problem of resurrecting ancient zombie threads.
Especially when people also double post. Do they think the exact same question posted twice in the same forum will get better results???
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Old 10-04-2012, 08:37 AM   #20
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Hot white wire joined to neutral wires!


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IThe other side of the box has 3 sets of wires in it - each set has a black, a white and a ground. The grounds are all connected in a wire nut and attached to the metal electrical box.
Is this the way it was originally or is this what you created?

The box was probably (not certainly) wired up correctly but what you did was incorrect.

A white wire attached to a switch terminal is not neutral. It may (should) have a band of black or red tape or stain at both ends.

You cannot hook up a new ceiling fan or receptacle or other device to a box unless you have a neutral in there.

Normally one of the two wires hooked up to each switch should be hot (120 volts to neutral and usually 120 volts to ground). There are, however, a few exceptions. If one of two wires going to a switch is white, that should be the always hot wire.
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Last edited by AllanJ; 10-04-2012 at 08:40 AM.
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Old 10-04-2012, 09:29 AM   #21
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Hot white wire joined to neutral wires!


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Especially when people also double post. Do they think the exact same question posted twice in the same forum will get better results???
The 2nd post was in anticipation of the first being removed by the moderator per an earlier comment. If removing the earlier post I entered on the other thread is something you can show me how to do, and the follow up posts that were added to it, I'd be grateful. Thanks for your help.
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Old 10-04-2012, 09:48 AM   #22
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Hot white wire joined to neutral wires!


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Is this the way it was originally or is this what you created?
The original wiring description I gave is how the box was wired when I bought the house.

There are no black or red markings on the hot white wire.

The unused switch and the loose unused wires in the box that ran to the attic were presumably in an anticipation of a ceiling fan being installed, which I am now attempting. I want to believe that the box has all the necessary wiring to operate a ceiling fan, but I am now at a standstill.

I will see if I can determine what else may be on this circuit, maybe that will help. I know there's a GFCI outlet in the bathroom on this circuit as well, but connecting/disconnecting this outlet has no impact on the switch in question, so it appears not to be wired in series.
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Old 10-04-2012, 10:22 AM   #23
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Hot white wire joined to neutral wires!


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There is no way that a hot wire could have been twisted together with neutrals. There would be a direct short and a blown breaker.

There are cases where a white wire can be hot, but it really should have some black tape on it to identify it as hot. An example is a switch leg, to a light fixture, where the hot wire is in the box supporting the light fixture. A standard 3-strand wire (white, black, ground) is used to send the hot wire down to the the switch. When I do it, I connect the white wire to the hot (black) in the fixture box, sending the hot side down to the switch with a white wire (which should have black tape near the end). The wire coming back up from the switch is black, so the fixture is connected to a black hot wire and a white neutral.

Two circuits in the same box is a no-no, unless it's a case of using a shared neutral. In that case, the breakers are linked together or a 2-pole is used, so both must be shut off at the same time. You can supply two circuits with a 12-3 or 14-3 wire, using only one neutral, as long as both the black and red wires are hooked to different phases. If that's not done, then the neutral would carry the amperage from both circuits and fry.
Where is that in the NEC?

Edit - Aah crap!! Just realized this is a two year old thread. Anyway.....,

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Last edited by electures; 10-04-2012 at 10:24 AM.
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