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Old 10-22-2008, 05:32 PM   #1
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The hot white - reidentify (change color)


3/4way switch at the light fixture there is a white wire tied in with the black, I know this is normal in a 3/4 way switch setup.
However couldn't that wire be re-identified (tape or marker) with a different color to lessen the confusion in a box? (i.e. I am working on a box that has 4 pieces of 14/2 run into it).
Or does it need to be white because it is acting like a neutral? I am not as familiar with 3/4 way switching as I need to be.
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Old 10-22-2008, 05:37 PM   #2
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The hot white - reidentify (change color)


if it's attached to black, it needs to have black tape on it to identify it as such.

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Old 10-22-2008, 07:17 PM   #3
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The hot white - reidentify (change color)


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Originally Posted by jamiedolan View Post
3/4way switch at the light fixture there is a white wire tied in with the black, I know this is normal in a 3/4 way switch setup.
However couldn't that wire be re-identified (tape or marker) with a different color to lessen the confusion in a box? (i.e. I am working on a box that has 4 pieces of 14/2 run into it).
Or does it need to be white because it is acting like a neutral? I am not as familiar with 3/4 way switching as I need to be.
Jamie
Yes it should be re-identified. You can use whatever method or color you choose, except green or gray. I myself prefer a blue sharpie marker, because it isn't a standard color for house wiring, thereby distinguishing that particular conductor from the rest.
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Old 10-22-2008, 07:59 PM   #4
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The hot white - reidentify (change color)


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if it's attached to black, it needs to have black tape on it to identify it as such.

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Not all states require the switch loop to be reidentified
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Old 10-22-2008, 08:06 PM   #5
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The hot white - reidentify (change color)


Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiedolan View Post
3/4way switch at the light fixture there is a white wire tied in with the black, I know this is normal in a 3/4 way switch setup.
However couldn't that wire be re-identified (tape or marker) with a different color to lessen the confusion in a box? (i.e. I am working on a box that has 4 pieces of 14/2 run into it).
Or does it need to be white because it is acting like a neutral? I am not as familiar with 3/4 way switching as I need to be.
Jamie

In a switch leg that is being fed from the light box to the switch, there is no neutral. A switch leg that is fed into the switch box first will have the white as a neutral to get it to the light.
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Old 10-22-2008, 08:24 PM   #6
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The hot white - reidentify (change color)


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Not all states require the switch loop to be reidentified
Just for clarification, the NEC requires re-identification (200.7), but individual states, municipalities, etc. can modify the code. Also, wire #6 and smaller pulled in conduit canít be re-identified, only cables and cords.
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Old 10-22-2008, 09:26 PM   #7
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The hot white - reidentify (change color)


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Just for clarification, the NEC requires re-identification (200.7), but individual states, municipalities, etc. can modify the code. Also, wire #6 and smaller pulled in conduit canít be re-identified, only cables and cords.

Like what I said not all states require the white to be re identified
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Old 10-22-2008, 09:42 PM   #8
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The hot white - reidentify (change color)


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Like what I said not all states require the white to be re identified
Not required? Or just not enforced? I mean the NEC has required that whites used as hots in switch loops and other circuits be re-identified since like 1923. It's hard to imagine that a state would specifically find this particular code to be a non-issue. Often, it's just that inspectors are lenient on small things like this.
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Old 10-22-2008, 09:47 PM   #9
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The hot white - reidentify (change color)


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Not required? Or just not enforced? I mean the NEC has required that whites used as hots in switch loops and other circuits be re-identified since like 1923. It's hard to imagine that a state would specifically find this particular code to be a non-issue. Often, it's just that inspectors are lenient on small things like this.

Mass is a great state, they use common sense, and if you cant figure out that a white wire is a switch leg, then you probably should not be touching it to begin with, so thats why I love Mass!

Not directed at you Inphase, just agreeing with what Mass has done with its NEC amendments, CT has some good ones as well. but Mass just plain ROCKS!
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Old 10-22-2008, 09:53 PM   #10
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The hot white - reidentify (change color)


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Mass is a great state, they use common sense, and if you cant figure out that a white wire is a switch leg, then you probably should not be touching it to begin with, so thats why I love Mass!
Hey, I agree. I said the same thing to an inspector, to which he responded "The code is the code". But when you fail an inspection for this sole reason, and end up driving back out just to run a sharpie down a 6 inch wire, then it just becomes habit from then on. In other words, while it may be unnecessary from a common sense stand point, it still takes virtually no time to do, and sure doesn't hurt anything.

I wish all states would take the time to make common sense amendment to their codes, instead of just blindly following the crowd.
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Old 10-23-2008, 07:28 AM   #11
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The hot white - reidentify (change color)


i guess i should have added it's a courtesy for the next guy that has to work on the circuit too! i'd sure rather they be marked!

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Old 10-23-2008, 11:39 PM   #12
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The hot white - reidentify (change color)


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Originally Posted by MdangermouseM View Post
i guess i should have added it's a courtesy for the next guy that has to work on the circuit too! i'd sure rather they be marked!

DM
Only if they dont know what they are doing. sorry in advance, but this is 2nd grade stuff were talking about.
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Old 10-24-2008, 06:48 AM   #13
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The hot white - reidentify (change color)


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Only if they dont know what they are doing. sorry in advance, but this is 2nd grade stuff were talking about.


Are all DIYers competent electricians?

What is common sense to a tradesmen, may not make sense to an inexperienced person.
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Old 10-24-2008, 07:08 AM   #14
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The hot white - reidentify (change color)


sorry in advance too, but if an experienced electrician opened a junction box like i saw here in a photo, he'd be hard pressed to single out which is which. the mating octopi of wires in that box would fluster most ANYone. 2nd grade? what school was that? heck, i was wiring skyscrapers straight out of Kindergarten! weren't you? i stand by my statement. and thank you beenthere.

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Old 10-24-2008, 08:20 AM   #15
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The hot white - reidentify (change color)


Funny that you should mention 2nd grade. My 2nd grade science project was a 3-way switch controlling a light bulb and a parallel plug. There were a lot of non-believers that didn't think I actually wired it myself. A lot of them were saying that they couldn't even do that, trying to figure out how a 2nd grader could was beyond them.

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