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Old 08-31-2012, 08:33 AM   #16
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Hot Tub wiring - Another question


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Originally Posted by stickboy1375 View Post
And the reason the tub does not qualify for this, is because everything wont be on at once, and even if it were, the heater cycles on and off.
I'm pretty sure the pump runs continuously on mine. Heater cycles, but pump runs for filtration.

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Old 08-31-2012, 08:45 AM   #17
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Hot Tub wiring - Another question


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I'm pretty sure the pump runs continuously on mine. Heater cycles, but pump runs for filtration.
And that makes it non-continuous.
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Old 08-31-2012, 08:51 AM   #18
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Hot Tub wiring - Another question


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Originally Posted by OKDrew63 View Post
Be gentle, even though he's an engineer, he is my son.

He'll be over at the house today helping me get the electric squared away.

So at worst, I may WANT to upgrade the main panel breaker to 70A. At least that's what I'm getting from the conversation here.

Thanks for the info and clarifications, it's helped me quite a bit.
Anything over #6 AWG run to this unit will be a waste of money and material, and you will add extra work with the larger sized conductors.

A 70 amp breaker is fine feeding the #6 AWG feeder, use a 60AMP GFCI breaker for the hot tub branch circuit.
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Old 08-31-2012, 09:20 AM   #19
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Hot Tub wiring - Another question


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And that makes it non-continuous.
Not trying to be argumentative, but if the pump is running continuously, how can it be a non-continuous load? Is it because the pump is 120 and the heater 240?

What about my pool pump? I have a timer on it, but rarely use it because I think my water stays clearer with the pump on 24/7. Continuous or non-continuous?

Just trying to understand.
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Old 08-31-2012, 09:42 AM   #20
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Hot Tub wiring - Another question


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Originally Posted by herdfan View Post
Not trying to be argumentative, but if the pump is running continuously, how can it be a non-continuous load? Is it because the pump is 120 and the heater 240?

What about my pool pump? I have a timer on it, but rarely use it because I think my water stays clearer with the pump on 24/7. Continuous or non-continuous?

Just trying to understand.
Continuous Load. A Load where the maximum current is expected to continue for 3 hours or more.

In residential, we rarely see a continuous load, I can only think of a few, Electric heat, water heater, maybe one other...

Your pool pump does not qualify for a continuous load, think of more commercial lighting, where they max out a breaker at 20 amps... That lighting is clearly going to be on for more than 3 hours, causing the circuit breaker to heat up, so they derate it to 80%, 16 amp maximum load.
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Old 08-31-2012, 09:44 AM   #21
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Hot Tub wiring - Another question


The spa is a packaged unit. The manufacturer specifieds the maximum load is 48 amps. So the branch circuit conductors and OCPD for the spa must be sized accordingly. Any continuous duty or non-continuous duty equipment is taken into account by the manufacturer if any exist.

Now if I were supplying a single motor for a pool for example it is required to size the branch circuit conductors to 125% of the table FLC of that motor if continuous duty application. A pool pump for residential would not be continuous application IMO unless you make it that way.

Last edited by Stubbie; 08-31-2012 at 09:50 AM.
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Old 08-31-2012, 09:48 AM   #22
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Hot Tub wiring - Another question


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The spa is a packaged unit. The manufacturer specifieds the maximum load is 48 amps. So the branch circuit conductors and OCPD for the spa must be sized accordingly. Any continuous duty or non-continuous duty equipment is taken into account by the manufacturer if any exist.

Now if I were supplying a single motor for a pool for example it is required to size the branch circuit conductors to 125% of the table FLC of that motor continuous or otherwise.
And 125% is the reciprocal of 80%.... just adding my 2 cents. and I agree with the above...
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Old 08-31-2012, 09:55 AM   #23
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Hot Tub wiring - Another question


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And 125% is the reciprocal of 80%.... just adding my 2 cents. and I agree with the above...
Yes that is the catch 22 as they say ... I did a slight edit to the last post to be more specific.
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Old 08-31-2012, 10:01 AM   #24
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Hot Tub wiring - Another question


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Continuous Load. A Load where the maximum current is expected to continue for 3 hours or more.
Ok, makes sense.

Thanks!
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Old 08-31-2012, 10:02 AM   #25
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Hot Tub wiring - Another question


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Ok, makes sense.

Thanks!
People hear continuous, and think, everything that runs 24/7 must be continuous... which makes sense, just not electrically speaking.
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Old 09-04-2012, 08:42 AM   #26
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Hot Tub wiring - Another question


After discussions and further reading, we agreed that what I already had planned for the install was good, but with a possible upgrade to the main panel breaker to 70 amps. He still feels that with the conductors in conduit underground, current capacity will be derated.

We got the conduit in the trench with a couple pull boxes, pulled the conductors and got everything wired in both panels. He did the panel wiring, which was much appreciated on my end.

The major pain was getting a pull rope pulled with a fish tape. We ended up using an old trick I read about a while back, we tied a napkin onto a small string and sucked it through the conduit with the shop vac, then tied the pull rope onto the string and pulled it the rest of way through the conduit. This was after we cut the conduit to find the fish tape. DOH!

Pulling the wire was the easy part. Checked voltage at the spa panel and we look good, just need to see what happens when I apply a load.

Thanks for all the info.
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Old 09-28-2012, 09:24 AM   #27
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Hot Tub wiring - Another question


UPDATE....

Got the tub set and wired last night - finally. Filled it with water, flipped the breaker, turned on both pumps and the blower with the heater running and no problems. The deck didn't even collapse, although it creaked a few times during fill up (370 gal). The 20A accessory circuit is wired and operating as well, lights were on with the tub running (10 small LEDs, 12vdc) and everything stayed humming along. I think I'm good to go, just need to finish up the privacy panels on the deck.
Thanks for the help.
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Old 09-28-2012, 06:54 PM   #28
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Hot Tub wiring - Another question


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The deck didn't even collapse
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Old 09-30-2012, 05:10 PM   #29
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Hot Tub wiring - Another question


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Originally Posted by OKDrew63 View Post
UPDATE....

Got the tub set and wired last night - finally. Filled it with water, flipped the breaker, turned on both pumps and the blower with the heater running and no problems. The deck didn't even collapse, although it creaked a few times during fill up (370 gal). The 20A accessory circuit is wired and operating as well, lights were on with the tub running (10 small LEDs, 12vdc) and everything stayed humming along. I think I'm good to go, just need to finish up the privacy panels on the deck.
Thanks for the help.
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That amount of water you fill the spa that weight in almost 3,000 lbs and I think I did mention before make sure the deck is allready enforced to handle the weight of water plus the spa itself.

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Old 10-01-2012, 08:58 AM   #30
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Hot Tub wiring - Another question


"The deck didn't even collapse".

That was a bit of a joke on my part since I built the deck myself. I was worried about ALL of the project (I have a tendency to do that) but so far, there seems to be no issues. The deck is solid, the tub is level and there has been no creaking from anything moving or squatting anymore. We've been in the tub several times over the weekend. 2x8 joists, 12" OC, on 3 beams under the tub. Each beam is on 3 concrete piers 2' deep (Oklahoma) and I've got 2x6 decking on top of that. The tub is 7'6"x7'6".

Seems like the 6 ga to the panel and the tub is carrying the load well. I've learned a lot on this project, but not sure I'd want to do it again.

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