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Old 04-10-2013, 06:37 AM   #16
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Hot Tub Sub Panel off of a Pool Sub Panel


Thanks Marc. I didnt see that on the schematic. it does look like the heater is 5.5kw

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Old 04-10-2013, 09:34 PM   #17
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Hot Tub Sub Panel off of a Pool Sub Panel


You lucky dog! The wire you need will fit in 1" PVC and your pool panel is robust enough, rated max. 125 amps.

Spa
Pump 1 (x 1.25, largest motor). 11.25A
Pump 2 9A
Heater 22.91A
Ozonator (guess) .02A
Controller (guess) 1A
Total 44.18A

pool
pump(table 430.248 x 1.25, continuous) 12.5A
blower (table 430.248) 10A
Light 2.5A
Grand total 69.18A

You missed #6 copper wire by a couple of amps but it could have been much worse.

Your two hots are #4 copper wire THWN. Neutral is #8 THWN insulated white, ground is #8 THWN insulated green (for pools).

This #4 feed is rated for 85A. You can protect it with a 70, 80 or 90A double pole breaker.

Your spa run can be #8 THWN for the two hots and #10 THWN white for neutral, #10 THWN green for ground. Breaker 50A double pole.

For this purpose all wires must be copper and listed THWN or better.

Last edited by Glennsparky; 04-10-2013 at 11:12 PM.
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:39 AM   #18
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Hot Tub Sub Panel off of a Pool Sub Panel


Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennsparky View Post
You lucky dog! The wire you need will fit in 1" PVC and your pool panel is robust enough, rated max. 125 amps.

Spa
Pump 1 (x 1.25, largest motor). 11.25A
Pump 2 9A
Heater 22.91A
Ozonator (guess) .02A
Controller (guess) 1A
Total 44.18A

pool
pump(table 430.248 x 1.25, continuous) 12.5A
blower (table 430.248) 10A
Light 2.5A
Grand total 69.18A

You missed #6 copper wire by a couple of amps but it could have been much worse.

Your two hots are #4 copper wire THWN. Neutral is #8 THWN insulated white, ground is #8 THWN insulated green (for pools).

This #4 feed is rated for 85A. You can protect it with a 70, 80 or 90A double pole breaker.

Your spa run can be #8 THWN for the two hots and #10 THWN white for neutral, #10 THWN green for ground. Breaker 50A double pole.

For this purpose all wires must be copper and listed THWN or better.

Glennsparky.,

For spa ground conductor that part you have to be carefull with it due some manufacter will required a full sized conductor the same as ungrounded conductors so if that spa have manufacter instruction or details ya have to follow it espcally if they mention ground conductor size there.

Most spa I useally deal in USA side typically use either #8 or #6 AWG depending on what the instruction called for. but over here in France it is mantory 16mm2 ( 6AWG ) for all ground conductors for spas.

Merci,
Marc
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Old 04-11-2013, 08:39 PM   #19
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Hot Tub Sub Panel off of a Pool Sub Panel


Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennsparky View Post
You lucky dog! The wire you need will fit in 1" PVC and your pool panel is robust enough, rated max. 125 amps.

Spa
Pump 1 (x 1.25, largest motor). 11.25A
Pump 2 9A
Heater 22.91A
Ozonator (guess) .02A
Controller (guess) 1A
Total 44.18A

pool
pump(table 430.248 x 1.25, continuous) 12.5A
blower (table 430.248) 10A
Light 2.5A
Grand total 69.18A

You missed #6 copper wire by a couple of amps but it could have been much worse.

Your two hots are #4 copper wire THWN. Neutral is #8 THWN insulated white, ground is #8 THWN insulated green (for pools).

This #4 feed is rated for 85A. You can protect it with a 70, 80 or 90A double pole breaker.

Your spa run can be #8 THWN for the two hots and #10 THWN white for neutral, #10 THWN green for ground. Breaker 50A double pole.

For this purpose all wires must be copper and listed THWN or better.
Ok. Thanks for taking the time to review my situation and provide the feedback. So if I understand correctly, I need to verify the wire size that feeds the sub panel from the main panel. if the wire size is adequate, I can install a 50 amp breaker into the sub panel and run THWN wire (I'm thinking about just going #6 for all 4 wires) in new conduit to the hot tub.

Am I on track here?

Would it hurt to make the 50 amp breaker a gfci? Would that be an issue since there is a gfci in the control unit of the tub as well? Maybe I should hook it up with a standard breaker then test the integrated gfci before spending the $100+ for the gfci.
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Old 04-11-2013, 08:56 PM   #20
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Hot Tub Sub Panel off of a Pool Sub Panel


Quote:
Originally Posted by westgrove View Post
...Am I on track here?
Yeah, sure. There's no way you've got #4 in there. 8 or maybe 6.
Quote:
Would it hurt to make the 50 amp breaker a gfci? Would that be an issue since there is a gfci in the control unit of the tub as well? Maybe I should hook it up with a standard breaker then test the integrated gfci before spending the $100+ for the gfci.
It's not much of a problem. You'll just never know which one popped, but it's a short walk.
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Old 04-11-2013, 09:14 PM   #21
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Hot Tub Sub Panel off of a Pool Sub Panel


You're the man Mr. Sparky. Thanks again for the help.
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Old 04-12-2013, 10:56 AM   #22
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Hot Tub Sub Panel off of a Pool Sub Panel


So we are using the existing sub panel (pool panel)? Thought that might be possible.
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Old 04-15-2013, 12:31 PM   #23
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Hot Tub Sub Panel off of a Pool Sub Panel


Thats what i think I will do JV.

I took the subpanel apart this weekend and found that the wire feeding it from the main panel are #8 (8-3 2 hots, 1 nuetral, and 1 ground). Hopefully I can still make this work without pulling new wire to the subpanel. Since the subpanel is fed by #8, I am planning to install a regular 50 amp breaker into the subpanel and then run 4 #8 thwn wires (red, black, white, green) in conduit to the hot tub.

Let me know if im saying anything above that doesnt work or is a hazard.

My last question for you great group of helpful people is that when I opened up the hot tub's control panel to take a look at the integrated gfci, I noticed that on the gfci itself, the writing said that it was rated for 125v. Does the control panel split the 240 for use in the unit making the 125v gfci enough protection?

Just seemed odd.
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Old 04-15-2013, 11:57 PM   #24
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Hot Tub Sub Panel off of a Pool Sub Panel


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Originally Posted by westgrove View Post
Thats what i think I will do JV.

I took the subpanel apart this weekend and found that the wire feeding it from the main panel are #8 (8-3 2 hots, 1 nuetral, and 1 ground). Hopefully I can still make this work without pulling new wire to the subpanel. Since the subpanel is fed by #8, I am planning to install a regular 50 amp breaker into the subpanel and then run 4 #8 thwn wires (red, black, white, green) in conduit to the hot tub.

Let me know if im saying anything above that doesnt work or is a hazard.

My last question for you great group of helpful people is that when I opened up the hot tub's control panel to take a look at the integrated gfci, I noticed that on the gfci itself, the writing said that it was rated for 125v. Does the control panel split the 240 for use in the unit making the 125v gfci enough protection?

Just seemed odd.
I am little lerry on the #8 THWN conductors with 50 amp breaker due this part I will have to take a look at the chart to make sure it is ok to use with 50 amp breaker but I did not catch one part is distance from the main breaker box to the subpanel where you are using now.

For your GFCI that model is little special verison which it call high current GFCI which it will have a large loop behind the GFCI to read the larger conductor and it still the same function but you will need 120 volt to get this one function properly ( just be aware this type of GFCI dead front is current transfomer verison and most big box store will not stock this item at all )

Merci,
Marc
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Old 04-16-2013, 10:38 AM   #25
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Hot Tub Sub Panel off of a Pool Sub Panel


Thanks frenchelectrician. The main breaker box is about 100' from the subpanel. The integrated GFCI is interesting. It does have the loop that yo describe. Is this type of GFCI safe and/or meet NEC code?
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Old 04-17-2013, 12:24 AM   #26
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Hot Tub Sub Panel off of a Pool Sub Panel


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Thanks frenchelectrician. The main breaker box is about 100' from the subpanel. The integrated GFCI is interesting. It does have the loop that yo describe. Is this type of GFCI safe and/or meet NEC code?
Ahh ok for the spa part it maybe ok but for myself I rather bump up to #6 but if you going to run the pool and spa at the same time you will need even larger conductors ( possiblty #4 or #3 one of the two ) to handle all the loads.

Now for the GFCI which it was factory installed that is common item and it do meet the NEC codes without issue.

Just remember to test the GFCI each month to make sure they are function properly.

I will post the photo what it look likes.,



The loop behind the GFCI is used for all the incomming conductors to the contractor or main relay box which it will turn on or shut it off depending on the GFCI will catch it.

Just push the test button and the reset button should pop out and you should have no power of whatever in the rest of spa system then it is functioning properly after you reset it the power come back on then ya good to go.

The only place you will find this replacement is useally at electrical supply centre but some big box store can special order them. Right now I do not know what the cost they are running now.

Merci,
Marc
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Old 04-17-2013, 11:03 AM   #27
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Hot Tub Sub Panel off of a Pool Sub Panel


Try it. grove. Can't hurt. Just install the breaker for the spa and see how it works. If you cannot run both, then you know what to do.

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