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Old 11-15-2008, 02:47 PM   #1
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Hot Tub Conduit & Grounding


HI;

I bought some of the grey schd 40 1" electrical PVC ENT tubing for my run to my indoor - in house hot tub. I realized after looking at the routing, that it would be easier to use 3/4" EMT due to being able to bend it in ways I can't with ENT.

I have not been able to figure out if for an indoor spa if I can use EMT as the ground path or if I need to still run a ground wire. 680.43(E) appears to apply. Section (E) 1 I suspect applies to RMC or IMC that is threaded and I suspect it would not apply to EMT. Section (E) 2 says "Metal-to-metal mounting on a common frame or base". I don't know if that applies to EMT or not.

Do you think it is a good idea to run EMT to the hot tub (I know it is allowed per 680.25 (A), I am just looking for an opinion). If I do run EMT, do I need to run a seperate grounding conductor or can the EMT serve as a ground? If the EMT can serve as a ground, then I would run 3 #6 wires to the tub through the EMT. If it can't then I would add an addition wire for the ground path (#8 gage for the ground path).

If I understand the code correctly, in 680.41, I do not need to provide a disconnect at the Hot Tub. I have a 50A GFCI breaker that will fit in my Cuttler Hammer Panel, and I was thinking of running a connection from the tub directly to the cuttler hammer panel. Have I understood the code properly, and is that a proper residential setup?

Thanks.

Jamie

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Old 11-15-2008, 03:01 PM   #2
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Hot Tub Conduit & Grounding


Even if it were allowed to use the EMT you should run a dedicated ground for a spa.

You do not need an emergency shut, off but you DO need some form of disconnect. This can be the breaker if it is within sight.

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Old 11-15-2008, 03:17 PM   #3
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Hot Tub Conduit & Grounding


The ground is supposed to be insulated&dedicated. Use a disconnect and box rated for your use.
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Old 11-15-2008, 04:16 PM   #4
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Hot Tub Conduit & Grounding


Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
Even if it were allowed to use the EMT you should run a dedicated ground for a spa.

You do not need an emergency shut, off but you DO need some form of disconnect. This can be the breaker if it is within sight.
680.41 - " Emergency Switch for Spas and Hot Tubs" ... ... "This requirement shall not apply to single-family dwellings."


Is the disconnect switch something different than an emergency switch? If so, what kind of disconnect are we talking about using, just a cheap throw lever disconnect box?

Thanks
Jamie
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Old 11-15-2008, 04:21 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgsgww View Post
The ground is supposed to be insulated&dedicated. Use a disconnect and box rated for your use.
Thanks. I will run a ground - no problem. On basically anything other than a hot tub, I would be able to use the EMT right?

I am confused about the disconnect requirment, I read the code to say that residential homes do not need the disconnect / emergency switch, 680.41. Did I misunderstand this?

Thanks
Jamie
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Old 11-15-2008, 04:41 PM   #6
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Hot Tub Conduit & Grounding


Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiedolan View Post
Thanks. I will run a ground - no problem. On basically anything other than a hot tub, I would be able to use the EMT right?

I am confused about the disconnect requirment, I read the code to say that residential homes do not need the disconnect / emergency switch, 680.41. Did I misunderstand this?

Thanks
Jamie

680.41 is for an emergency switch, which is not required for single-family dwellings,

680.12 is for maintence disconnecting means, which IS required.
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Old 11-15-2008, 04:57 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by chris75 View Post
680.41 is for an emergency switch, which is not required for single-family dwellings,

680.12 is for maintence disconnecting means, which IS required.
Would this be an acceptable disconnect?

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...RNM&lpage=none

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Jamie
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Old 11-15-2008, 06:13 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiedolan View Post
Would this be an acceptable disconnect?

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...RNM&lpage=none

Thanks
Jamie

Why not get something cheaper like a AC disconnect? Unless of course you want/need the gfci protection at that location.
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Old 11-15-2008, 06:21 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris75 View Post
Why not get something cheaper like a AC disconnect? Unless of course you want/need the gfci protection at that location.
I have a couple disconnects lying in the garage, but they are both fused. I guess it would not hurt anything to have a couple fuses in the disconnect as long as they are sized =to or larger than the 50A GF that protects it in the main panel.

My disconnects are pretty ugly thought for a finished room. I wonder if there are any nicer looking disconnects available.


Thanks
Jamie

Last edited by jamiedolan; 11-15-2008 at 06:22 PM. Reason: more info
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Old 11-15-2008, 06:59 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiedolan View Post

My disconnects are pretty ugly thought for a finished room. I wonder if there are any nicer looking disconnects available.


Thanks
Jamie
Everything electrical is ugly, unless of course your an electrician.
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Old 11-15-2008, 07:03 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiedolan View Post
Thanks. I will run a ground - no problem. On basically anything other than a hot tub, I would be able to use the EMT right?


Thanks
Jamie
I am no expert on hot tubs, so I'll leave that to the others. But the question above, as to whether EMT is a suitable grounding path, the answer is yes. However, a good practice is to always pull a separate ground. Always make sure your fittings are tight, and pull a ground wire.
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Old 11-15-2008, 09:09 PM   #12
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Hot Tub Conduit & Grounding


Hot tubs DO require a dedicated insulated grounding conductor. There is an exception though that lets us use and Chapter 3 wiring method for the interior portions of the wiring.
See NEC 680.43
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Old 11-15-2008, 11:36 PM   #13
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Hot Tub Conduit & Grounding


Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
Hot tubs DO require a dedicated insulated grounding conductor. There is an exception though that lets us use and Chapter 3 wiring method for the interior portions of the wiring.
See NEC 680.43
If I read this correctly, Chapter 3 tells us in 358.60 that EMT can be used as a grounding conductor, and 680.43 tells us that for indoor installs that we can follow chapter 3. So that means that technically for a indoor installation that uses all EMT, it does not require a seperate grounding wire? But I get the idea it is a good backup to have?

Thanks
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Old 11-16-2008, 07:11 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiedolan View Post
So that means that technically for a indoor installation that uses all EMT, it does not require a seperate grounding wire? But I get the idea it is a good backup to have?
No it doesn't, and YES it is!

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