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Old 02-21-2009, 07:12 PM   #31
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Hot tub breaker tripping


I finally got a chance to take pictures of everything. Please comments to:
  1. Potential things that could be causing the GFCI to trip
  2. Things that need to be changed to get the wiring safe and to code
Thanks for all the help you guys are offering.
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Hot tub breaker tripping-mainbreaker.jpg   Hot tub breaker tripping-conduitboxtoattic.jpg   Hot tub breaker tripping-conduitfromattictodis.jpg   Hot tub breaker tripping-disconnecttotub.jpg   Hot tub breaker tripping-gfcidisconnect.jpg  

Hot tub breaker tripping-gfci.jpg  

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Old 02-21-2009, 07:15 PM   #32
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Hot tub breaker tripping


I took a picture of the motor but if it unreadable, it is labeled 240v, 1 phz.
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Hot tub breaker tripping-tubmotor.jpg   Hot tub breaker tripping-tubelec.jpg   Hot tub breaker tripping-panelblock.jpg   Hot tub breaker tripping-controlpanel.jpg  
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Old 02-21-2009, 07:40 PM   #33
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Hot tub breaker tripping


Just my wild guess, but it looks like the white wire from the gfci is connected to the terminal strip, then goes straight to the bonded section of the tub.
I say you have a neutral to ground connection

Of course I can not read the diagram.
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Old 02-21-2009, 08:58 PM   #34
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Hot tub breaker tripping


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Originally Posted by jbfan View Post
Just my wild guess, but it looks like the white wire from the gfci is connected to the terminal strip, then goes straight to the bonded section of the tub.
I say you have a neutral to ground connection

Of course I can not read the diagram.
I bet it is tripping when the tub tries to use a 120v load, line to neutral.

Is there a light? a Separate pump for bubbles?

Jamie
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Old 02-21-2009, 09:08 PM   #35
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Hot tub breaker tripping


If this is a Sparta Triton spa 6 person made in the USA by Thermspas it is a 240 volt only spa and the neutral (white) from the gfci to the spa is not needed. .
I agree with Jbfan that the neutral is connected to ground (green wire to the chassis from the terminal strip.)

If this is the spa you have then disconnect the white at the terminal strip and cap it and you should be good to go.

EDIT: See next post as I am not sure the gfci is wired correctly.

http://www.servicemypool.com/spas.html
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Old 02-22-2009, 10:08 AM   #36
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Hot tub breaker tripping


I just wanted to comment that I would find it suprising that the bare ground would be ran out of the control box through that side hole and terminated to the bonding ground bar. This is fine but I don't think that was the intention of the manufacturer. Usually a grounding lug or terminal strip position is provided as soon as the supply wires enter the control box. So my thought would be that the bare ground in the supply would connect where the white is connected in the picture if that green wire is terminated to the terminal strip where it appears to be.

The white neutral from the disconnect ... if it is indeed needed.... should be connected across from a factory connected white neutral... not a green ground wire.... And I do not see that on the terminal strip.
If there is no position on the terminal strip that is labeled 'neutral' or 'N' then I would say it isn't needed.

I also see another potential problem.....I would like to see a better picture of the neutral (white) terminations in the disconnect box. It almost looks like the gfci neutral pigtail is connected with the bare grounds at the disconnects ground bar which would also be incorrect....just cannot see it good enough.


Can you tell us what the labeling is behind the wires on the terminal strip ?
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Old 02-22-2009, 11:19 AM   #37
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Hot tub breaker tripping


Heres my 2 cents, I wouldnt let your friend do any more work for you.

He used NM outside, (not allowed) He miswired that tub, its a straight 240v tub, no neutral conductor required,But landed it at the grounding location. Then he landed the grounding conductor at the bonding location.

And the disconnect GFCI breaker is miswired. Looks to me that all the grounded and grounding connections tie together.

One more thing, that disconnect looks pretty darn close to within 5' of the tub.

Easy solutuion for ya, call someone that knows something about electricity and codes.

Last edited by chris75; 02-22-2009 at 11:28 AM.
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Old 02-22-2009, 12:04 PM   #38
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Hot tub breaker tripping


Hello Chris

Yeah... I had time today to take a closer look at things and I don't think there is any doubt the gfci pigtail is connected to the ground bar at the disconnect.
There are no neutral connections at the terminal block so I think it is pretty certain that is not needed.

I was surprised though that the Op said it will run for 20 to 40 minutes before tripping the gfci. It looks to me that it would trip almost instantly when a pump or other load comes on line.
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Old 02-22-2009, 12:18 PM   #39
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Hot tub breaker tripping


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Hello Chris

Yeah... I had time today to take a closer look at things and I don't think there is any doubt the gfci pigtail is connected to the ground bar at the disconnect.
There are no neutral connections at the terminal block so I think it is pretty certain that is not needed.

I was surprised though that the Op said it will run for 20 to 40 minutes before tripping the gfci. It looks to me that it would trip almost instantly when a pump or other load comes on line.
I guess I would have to actually be there, but IMO that GFCI should trip instantly!

Oh, and for what its worth to the OP, the installer did a nice job on the EMT install... Too bad the rest is not so great.

Also, you need a bonding grid installed under that tub as well. Good luck!
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Old 02-22-2009, 12:27 PM   #40
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Hot tub breaker tripping


Yep I agree, he just didn't consider codes and was confused on the gfci connections and what to do with the neutral.....

It just amazes me how many people consider neutral and ground one and the same.

Around here they would not have allowed that liquidtight ran across the walkway exposed.
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Old 02-22-2009, 12:32 PM   #41
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Around here they would not have allowed that liquidtight ran across the walkway exposed.
That would probably be allowed around here, but I would have used SCH 80 PVC.
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Old 02-22-2009, 12:38 PM   #42
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Hot tub breaker tripping


He did a lot better than this one we're working on now (waiting for new motor). Btw, the deck guy wired it.

Here goes: Customer calls and says the "pool guy" got shocked with the "power off" and wanted us to come check it.

Opened the panel, red & white on the breaker, black on neutral.

Then at the GFCI disconnect, white and black on the lugs feeding it, reds wire nutted together going to tub, black/white on load side of GFI. NM out of disconnect, stapled under deck to tub.

At the tub, red to red, black to black, white to white. And it worked for a while.
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Old 02-22-2009, 02:45 PM   #43
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Hot tub breaker tripping


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Originally Posted by jamiedolan View Post
I bet it is tripping when the tub tries to use a 120v load, line to neutral.

Is there a light? a Separate pump for bubbles?

Jamie
There is a light and stereo. I did notice that one time after it tripped I got the tub going again but the stereo was not working.

The tub is NOT the Sparta Triton 6 person. It is the Jacuzzi brand Triton 8 person.

You can get an owners manual at:

http://www.jacuzzihottubs.com/reques...d-manuals.html

scroll to the bottom and under Owners Manual Archive and select Platinum Series Spa 2001.
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Old 02-22-2009, 02:56 PM   #44
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Hot tub breaker tripping


Electrical Requirements

Your Jacuzzi Premium spa (except the Triton) requires a 230VAC, 50 AMP, 4-wire groundedtype GFCI protected electrical service with copper conductors, and must be in a separate circuit having no other appliance connected in that circuit. If you do not have this kind of circuit, a qualified electrician should install the necessary wiring. A wiring diagram is provided on the inside cover of the electrical control box. Inadequately sized wiring may cause the unit to malfunction and bring about permanent damage to the hot tub’s electrical system. The circuit must also have a ground wire in order to take advantage of the designed-in safety features of the hot tub. A bond wire must also be used. Bond according to procedure described below.

WARNING: Without proper grounding and bonding, a system malfunction may cause fatal shock.


I didnt bold face the qualified part, but its something your installer is lacking.
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Old 02-22-2009, 03:04 PM   #45
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Hot tub breaker tripping


Yeah, that disconnect is too close to the tub
All outlets & disconnect must be at least 5' away

I looked at my box

White from main panel goes to a neutral bar isolated from the box
White from breaker goes to this bar too
White from tub goes to breaker

Ground bar & Neutral bar must be separate!!

Ground from panel goes to ground bar attached to the box
Insulated ground from tub goes to the same bar
You have an uninsulated copper ground - not allowed

Can't look at my tub wiring, too cold outside

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