Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-19-2009, 10:33 PM   #1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 12
Rewards Points: 10
Question

Hot tub breaker tripping


We just bought a used hot tub (6 year old Jacuzzi Triton) and the seller gave us the 50 amp GFCI breaker with it. We had a friend electrician do all the electrical work, which included running 6/3 and installing the 50 amp GFCI.

Since everything was installed the hot tub works fine most of the time but will occasionally trip the GFCI after using the hot tub for 20-40 minutes. It has not tripped during the day when not in use, just heating. Our friend said it could be that the GFCI is old and starting to fail.

I am a bit skeptical of our friends abilities and like to get some input before buying a new breaker.

Thanks.

TahoeTexan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2009, 10:51 PM   #2
DIY'er
 
jamiedolan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Neenah, Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 2,032
Rewards Points: 1,000
Blog Entries: 2
Default

Hot tub breaker tripping


Quote:
Originally Posted by TahoeTexan View Post
We just bought a used hot tub (6 year old Jacuzzi Triton) and the seller gave us the 50 amp GFCI breaker with it. We had a friend electrician do all the electrical work, which included running 6/3 and installing the 50 amp GFCI.

Since everything was installed the hot tub works fine most of the time but will occasionally trip the GFCI after using the hot tub for 20-40 minutes. It has not tripped during the day when not in use, just heating. Our friend said it could be that the GFCI is old and starting to fail.

I am a bit skeptical of our friends abilities and like to get some input before buying a new breaker.

Thanks.
Where is the tub installed? Outside?

Is this 6/3 you installed a Romex style cable where all of the wires are together in a bundle with a rubber style jacket around it?

Jamie

__________________
Jamie Dolan - Neenah, WI
Jamie Dolan Paw Dogs
Need Help Uploading Photos? Click here.
jamiedolan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2009, 12:00 AM   #3
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 12
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Hot tub breaker tripping


The tub is installed outside and yes the wiring is a Romex style with 3 + ground in a jacket.
TahoeTexan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2009, 12:21 AM   #4
DIY'er
 
jamiedolan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Neenah, Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 2,032
Rewards Points: 1,000
Blog Entries: 2
Default

Hot tub breaker tripping


Quote:
Originally Posted by TahoeTexan View Post
The tub is installed outside and yes the wiring is a Romex style with 3 + ground in a jacket.
This is illegal and unsafe. You really need to start from scratch on this. To start with, the romex style cable can not be used to feed a outdoor hot tub for multiple reasons. I cited the code below.

Unless you really want to take the time to learn how to do this, now is the time to call someone in that is licensed.

A permit is almost always required for this type of installation, and a install done in the fashion your is done would have never passed inspection.

There is no way to know what else is wired wrong, your lucky the breaker tripped any no one died.

Jamie

Part 680.25 of the National electrical code:

(A) ,Wiring Methods. Feeders shall be installed in rig
met~l conduit, intermediate metal conduit, liquidtight, fle
ible nonmetallic conduit, or rigid nonmetallic condu
Electrical metallic tubing shall be permitted where install
on or within a building, and electrical nonmetallic tubi
shall be permitted where installed within a building.
__________________
Jamie Dolan - Neenah, WI
Jamie Dolan Paw Dogs
Need Help Uploading Photos? Click here.
jamiedolan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2009, 10:52 AM   #5
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 12
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Hot tub breaker tripping


Jamie,
Let me add a little info. The romex is run in EMT conduit from the main box into the attic and out of the attic to the exterior of the house to the disconnect box. In the attic it is not in conduit.

Sorry I was not specific on this.
TahoeTexan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2009, 10:58 AM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 1,802
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

Hot tub breaker tripping


Quote:
Originally Posted by TahoeTexan View Post
Jamie,
Let me add a little info. The romex is run in EMT conduit from the main box into the attic and out of the attic to the exterior of the house to the disconnect box. In the attic it is not in conduit.

Sorry I was not specific on this.
Still not a code compliant setup. Does this have two pump motors?

Last edited by jerryh3; 02-20-2009 at 11:18 AM.
jerryh3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2009, 11:02 AM   #7
DIY'er
 
jamiedolan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Neenah, Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 2,032
Rewards Points: 1,000
Blog Entries: 2
Default

Hot tub breaker tripping


Quote:
Originally Posted by TahoeTexan View Post
Jamie,
Let me add a little info. The romex is run in EMT conduit from the main box into the attic and out of the attic to the exterior of the house to the disconnect box. In the attic it is not in conduit.

Sorry I was not specific on this.
Is the conduit outside at all? You can never run romex in conduit outside of the house. If the emt goes past the house at all, it can't me used to feed a hot tub. Also you can't use romex for a outdoor hot tub because it does not have an insulated ground wire, which is required also.

How large of EMT did he use? I bet youd have to use atleast 1" to cram 6-3 romex in it. With the expense and install time of 1" EMT, I can't belive they didn't just run all conduit and pull single strand wires as they should have.

Jamie
__________________
Jamie Dolan - Neenah, WI
Jamie Dolan Paw Dogs
Need Help Uploading Photos? Click here.
jamiedolan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2009, 11:06 AM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NW of D.C.
Posts: 5,990
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Hot tub breaker tripping


Quote:
Originally Posted by TahoeTexan View Post
will occasionally trip the GFCI after using the hot tub for 20-40 minutes.
With steady current draw this seems a long time for a breaker at its limit to trip. Look for a pattern with the "occasionally."

It has not tripped during the day when not in use, just heating.
So it's not water seeping in and causing leakage current.

Our friend said it could be that the GFCI is old and starting to fail.
Maybe. If it's the cheapest repair with a reasonable likelihood of success, you might want to do this.
You probably need to monitor current draw and leakage current, if you want to avoid "troubleshooting by replacing" parts.
If you can reliably induce the fault you have a better chance of fixing it.

So, heating and tripping are correlated. For troubleshooting purposes can you increase the load during heating and see if the trip time decreases?

You have elec. specs on this tub, or a link? Photos might help, also.

Last edited by Yoyizit; 02-20-2009 at 11:10 AM.
Yoyizit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2009, 11:17 AM   #9
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 12
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Hot tub breaker tripping


Thanks for the info guys. When I get home I will look at the materials receipt to confirm the wire type.

It sounds like I should bring in a licensed electrician. Trying to save money, would it be possible to use the conduit that's in place and have the electrician run single strand following the current path? It's about a 100' run, with ~20' being conduit.
TahoeTexan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2009, 11:24 AM   #10
DIY'er
 
jamiedolan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Neenah, Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 2,032
Rewards Points: 1,000
Blog Entries: 2
Default

Hot tub breaker tripping


Quote:
Originally Posted by TahoeTexan View Post
Thanks for the info guys. When I get home I will look at the materials receipt to confirm the wire type.

It sounds like I should bring in a licensed electrician. Trying to save money, would it be possible to use the conduit that's in place and have the electrician run single strand following the current path? It's about a 100' run, with ~20' being conduit.
It's possible that conduit can be used. 3/4" conduit can be run for the entire job and 6 gage single strand thhn/thxn should be run, 4 wires total.

for the inside work 3/4" EMT only sells for about $4 per 10 feet. But the cost is in the installation. For a tub, you really want this to be done right. They have these rules for a reason, and a lot of times that reason is because people have been hurt or killed in the past when things are done wrong.

For your families safety, you really want to go over your options with a licensed person, and insist on a PERMIT.

Jamie
__________________
Jamie Dolan - Neenah, WI
Jamie Dolan Paw Dogs
Need Help Uploading Photos? Click here.
jamiedolan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2009, 11:26 AM   #11
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NW of D.C.
Posts: 5,990
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Hot tub breaker tripping


Quote:
Originally Posted by TahoeTexan View Post
It sounds like I should bring in a licensed electrician.
Troubleshoot what you can, first. The problem may be in the tub, not the supply, so check the Web for recalls, etc., for your make, model and your symptoms.

I've seen a lot of forum posts where the tech said "Trouble Not Found." Get his instrument readings in writing.

You may get a whole new, safe, setup that doesn't touch your symptoms. Or, the symptoms disappear for a week or a month and then return. That's why the service contract says "furnish and install"; it doesn't say "we promise to fix."

Last edited by Yoyizit; 02-20-2009 at 11:32 AM.
Yoyizit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2009, 11:29 AM   #12
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 12
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Hot tub breaker tripping


Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiedolan View Post
For a tub, you really want this to be done right. They have these rules for a reason, and a lot of times that reason is because people have been hurt or killed in the past when things are done wrong.
I totally agree with you. We have two kids and for all our safety I want it done right. I was under the impression the friend that did the work knew what he was doing. Lesson learned!
TahoeTexan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2009, 11:29 AM   #13
DIY'er
 
jamiedolan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Neenah, Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 2,032
Rewards Points: 1,000
Blog Entries: 2
Default

Hot tub breaker tripping


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoyizit View Post
Troubleshoot what you can, first. The problem may be in the tub, not the supply, so check the Web for recalls, etc., for your make, model and your symptoms.

I've seen a lot of forum posts where the tech said "Trouble Not Found." Get his instrument readings in writing.

The worst outcome is a whole new setup and it doesn't touch your symptoms. Or, the symptoms disappear for a week or a month and then return.
Those are good things to check out, but she still needs a legal setup for the wiring.

Jamie
__________________
Jamie Dolan - Neenah, WI
Jamie Dolan Paw Dogs
Need Help Uploading Photos? Click here.
jamiedolan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2009, 11:35 AM   #14
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 17,248
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Hot tub breaker tripping


Quote:
Originally Posted by TahoeTexan View Post
Thanks for the info guys. When I get home I will look at the materials receipt to confirm the wire type.

It sounds like I should bring in a licensed electrician. Trying to save money, would it be possible to use the conduit that's in place and have the electrician run single strand following the current path? It's about a 100' run, with ~20' being conduit.
Is it only 20' outside?

If so I'm curious if its to code to put a disconnect on the outside of the house & use the existing romex to that disconnect. Then run conduit the rest of the way?

680.42 is for hot tubs
(C) seems to indicate you can use the romex for inside wiring?

Last edited by Scuba_Dave; 02-20-2009 at 11:41 AM. Reason: sp
Scuba_Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2009, 11:38 AM   #15
Electrical Contractor
 
wirenut1110's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chester, VA.
Posts: 1,049
Rewards Points: 500
Send a message via AIM to wirenut1110
Default

Hot tub breaker tripping


Yes, you can make joints in the attic, (in a box of course) and change over to an insulated ground and PVC conduit.

wirenut1110 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pool Main breaker keeps tripping beckyreyes Electrical 12 08-11-2013 05:06 PM
Main Breaker is tripping rdmccaw Electrical 18 02-05-2009 11:27 PM
New GFCI Breaker Tripping w/ 3-way Flourescents BigJimmy Electrical 8 12-29-2008 03:29 PM
Tripping Wrong Breaker woodworksnmore@comcast.ne Electrical 15 03-28-2008 02:47 PM
20 Amp Breaker tripping with GFCI panhandlion Electrical 7 12-12-2007 09:59 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.