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Old 04-12-2007, 08:30 AM   #1
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Homeline Grounds/Subpanel Addition


I'm adding a Murray(125amp) subpanel next to a Homeline Main(150) panel. I'm using a #2 stranded cable with a 100 amp breaker in the main to control the sub.
The bus bars on the main do not have a connection large enough for the #2 wires. The main ground connection already has two grounds in it and cannot fit the sub ground. The main neutral/ground from the street has room to fit the neutral from the sub.
Two questions:
1. Is there a fitting that can be put into the ground on the main to expand the ground capacity?

2. Can the ground be placed into the neutral area as there is plenty of room? And they are linked together on the panel.

Thanks.
Ron

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Old 04-12-2007, 09:49 AM   #2
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Homeline Grounds/Subpanel Addition


1. Yes. Square D sells a ground/neutral lug that can be attached to the existing bar and will accept the #2 wire. NOTE: the ground for a 100A sub only has to be #4ga., and that should fit in the existing buss bar.

2. No. Neutral attachments are for one wire only. Use the lug mentioned above.

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Old 04-12-2007, 05:33 PM   #3
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Homeline Grounds/Subpanel Addition


Thanks Househelper. Appreciate the reply.
Ron
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Old 04-12-2007, 06:48 PM   #4
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Homeline Grounds/Subpanel Addition


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2. Can the ground be placed into the neutral area as there is plenty of room? And they are linked together on the panel.
To me this sounds like you would like to put the ground on the nuetral bar under a different screw. Either way the answer is the same, no. The ground and nuetral are only bonded at the main panel. They should be seperated at any subpanels.
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Old 04-12-2007, 08:34 PM   #5
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Homeline Grounds/Subpanel Addition


The OP was talking about the connections at the main panel, which I assume (perhaps incorrectly) is not also a subpanel.
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Old 04-12-2007, 10:15 PM   #6
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Homeline Grounds/Subpanel Addition


I was talking about the connections on the Main panel(Homeline). The subpanel has room in all the correct areas for the #2 wire.
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Old 04-13-2007, 03:15 AM   #7
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Homeline Grounds/Subpanel Addition


Yea I know. The connections AT the main panel, but FOR the sub-panel, correct?

The nuetral and ground are only bonded at, or upstream of, the main panel. The nuetral and grounding conductors feeding your sub-panel should be seperated AT the main panel and everywhere else downstream. Meaning, the nuetrals (in the sub) go on the nuetral bar...the grounds go on the grounding bar. NO more mix and match like in the main.

Last edited by jproffer; 04-13-2007 at 03:18 AM.
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Old 04-13-2007, 03:38 PM   #8
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Homeline Grounds/Subpanel Addition


At the main panel the neutrals and grounds are bonded together by means of a tie bar or wire between the two buss bars. For all electrical purposes they are one bar. You can put grounds and neutrals on either bar as you see fit. As long as you only put one neutral under one screw, and use the chart to determine how many grounds of what size can go under one screw.

If none of the holes is large enough, use the "add a lug" mentioned above and mount it to either bar. If one of the bars has a hole big enough use it.

Do not bond the ground and neutral in the sub panel. Make sure the neutral floats (meaning it is installed on insulators and the bonding screw is not put in) Make sure the grounds and neutrals stay on thier respective buss bars in the sub panel.
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Old 04-13-2007, 05:36 PM   #9
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Homeline Grounds/Subpanel Addition


Ordered the advised lugs today. Subpanel has two separate busses for the grounds and neutrals and have kept them separate. Appreciate the info.
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Old 04-17-2007, 06:54 PM   #10
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At the main panel the neutrals and grounds are bonded together by means of a tie bar or wire between the two buss bars. For all electrical purposes they are one bar. You can put grounds and neutrals on either bar as you see fit. As long as you only put one neutral under one screw, and use the chart to determine how many grounds of what size can go under one screw.

If none of the holes is large enough, use the "add a lug" mentioned above and mount it to either bar. If one of the bars has a hole big enough use it.

Do not bond the ground and neutral in the sub panel. Make sure the neutral floats (meaning it is installed on insulators and the bonding screw is not put in) Make sure the grounds and neutrals stay on thier respective buss bars in the sub panel.

About bonding the neutral and grounds , what if you had a sub panel with its own ground rod? ( like a barn or garage)
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Old 04-17-2007, 07:08 PM   #11
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Homeline Grounds/Subpanel Addition


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About bonding the neutral and grounds , what if you had a sub panel with its own ground rod? ( like a barn or garage)
For detached buildings, which require a ground rod, it depends on if you pulled a three or four wire feeder.

Three wire feeders are sometimes pulled to save money. A four wire feed is often required. (this example is a 120/240 single phase)
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Old 04-17-2007, 07:16 PM   #12
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Homeline Grounds/Subpanel Addition


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For detached buildings, which require a ground rod, it depends on if you pulled a three or four wire feeder.

Three wire feeders are sometimes pulled to save money. A four wire feed is often required. (this example is a 120/240 single phase)
Okay so if i can just 3 feeders and had a ground rod i could bond the panel and land all the neutral and grounds together? and if i can 4 wire feeder i would not bond the ground and the neutral and ground wires would have to be seperate?
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Old 04-17-2007, 07:46 PM   #13
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Homeline Grounds/Subpanel Addition


If you run a four wire feeder then you keep the grounds and neutrals seperate at the sub panel.

Either way you need a ground rod. If the building is detached you need a ground rod. you will need a ground rod. ground rod is a must. either way.
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Old 04-17-2007, 07:52 PM   #14
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Homeline Grounds/Subpanel Addition


arrons, are there now, or will there ever be any other metal paths between the main building and the detached building. metal conduit for the electrical service, phone line, water line, gas line, water line connected to a common city main system, catv, door bell wire for the supper bell. any at all other metal paths that electricity could take??

If so, you must use the four wire method.

If not you can save a few dollars and use the three wire method.
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Old 04-17-2007, 08:13 PM   #15
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[quote=jwhite;41394]arrons, are there now, or will there ever be any other metal paths between the main building and the detached building. metal conduit for the electrical service, phone line, water line, gas line, water line connected to a common city main system, catv, door bell wire for the supper bell. any at all other metal paths that electricity could take??

If so, you must use the four wire method.

If not you can save a few dollars and use the three wire
okay, yeah there is a water line out there put that is in pvc type pipe, the ellectric, tv, phone, and low volt alarm wires are all in pvc. the gas line is in a pvc type pipe also.

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