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Old 05-31-2012, 07:28 AM   #16
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High Voltage! Need a 50-75 kv Transformer


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if you don't know what ozone smells like you will soon find out.
Hey, I love the smell of ozone. Just hate the smell of burning hair.

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Old 05-31-2012, 10:02 AM   #17
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High Voltage! Need a 50-75 kv Transformer


I just skimmed over the noah site. The site barely mentions anything about shielding. Please take the time to determine the quantity of x-rays your contraption will produce, and build in adequate shielding. If you're curious as to why, you only need to read up on all the stupid things humanity did with x-ray machines when they first came out.
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Old 05-31-2012, 10:14 AM   #18
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It amazes me anyone tries to assist in such a dangerous ideas.

Sometimes its better to swallow your pride and not say anything, even though you may know something about the subject.
You bring up an interesting point.

The purpose of DIY forums is to enable adult OPs.

I draw the line if
-the OP will endanger innocent bystanders
or
-the OP's questions and statements show a total lack of comprehension of even the most basic principles involved.
Should I add a third category, or should I tweak these two, or both?

Maybe I'm biased. . .
I survived childhood even though
I messed with electricity (and the other kids didn't),
picked up snakes, bats and whatnot (and the other kids didn't)
batted wasps out of the air with my hands (and the other kids didn't), and
provoked whole gangs of people (and the other kids didn't).

And I still do all these things.

Last edited by Yoyizit; 05-31-2012 at 10:20 AM.
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Old 05-31-2012, 10:24 AM   #19
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High Voltage! Need a 50-75 kv Transformer


The big question is how much current do you need?

You could build your own transformer, though getting it to a specific voltage may be tricky. There are ways to calculate based on the wire resistance and other factors though so you know how many turns to do.
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Old 05-31-2012, 02:41 PM   #20
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High Voltage! Need a 50-75 kv Transformer


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What sort of current do you require ?
This is an important consideration.
A few mA is good for small x-ray tubes or improvised x-ray tubes. Under 1mA can produce usable radiation, but it takes forever to adequately expose a photographic plate.

This project really isn't that dangerous or crazy. Low-power x-ray sources aren't that hazardous, and you can do lots of fun stuff with them. The power supply is more dangerous than the radiation. Even that isn't so bad since the output current is usually harmlessly low. It's the intermediate voltages, like the input the the voltage multiplier, that are dangerous.
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Old 05-31-2012, 02:57 PM   #21
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High Voltage! Need a 50-75 kv Transformer


If you can try to stay under 500ma it will be much safer. It takes about 1a to kill you, but 500ma can also do it. Under that, it's less lethal.

But I don't care what the amperage is, I would not want to get shocked by that high of a voltage, so I'm sure you'll be taking all the proper measures to ensure that.

This project does have me intrigued though, do post pics when done. It's always fun to see this type of stuff. Stay safe.
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Old 05-31-2012, 04:03 PM   #22
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High Voltage! Need a 50-75 kv Transformer


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If you can try to stay under 500ma it will be much safer. It takes about 1a to kill you, but 500ma can also do it. Under that, it's less lethal.
That's about a factor of 10 too high! 500mA is definitely lethal. 1A is set-you-on-fire territory. The general consensus seems to be that several tens of mA (50-80 or so) is required from hand to hand to cause cardiac arrest. Anything above about 10mA is a serious hazard because you may not be able to let go.
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Old 05-31-2012, 04:33 PM   #23
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High Voltage! Need a 50-75 kv Transformer


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That's about a factor of 10 too high! 500mA is definitely lethal. 1A is set-you-on-fire territory. The general consensus seems to be that several tens of mA (50-80 or so) is required from hand to hand to cause cardiac arrest. Anything above about 10mA is a serious hazard because you may not be able to let go.
Actually you're right. I was probably thinking at a lower voltage like 120. Voltage has a certain factor too when it comes to danger. So does humidity and location of shock. Your body only absorbs a certain amount of current when you get a shock, but voltage helps it absorb more. That's why you wont get a shock off a 12 volt car battery even though it can deliver 100's of amps.

Really when the voltage reaches a certain point it alone will probably kill you just from the arc. 1 million volts would probably be instant death even at a very low current. Static electricity is in that range though but the current is VERY low.
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Old 05-31-2012, 05:01 PM   #24
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High Voltage! Need a 50-75 kv Transformer


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Actually you're right. I was probably thinking at a lower voltage like 120. Voltage has a certain factor too when it comes to danger. So does humidity and location of shock. Your body only absorbs a certain amount of current when you get a shock, but voltage helps it absorb more. That's why you wont get a shock off a 12 volt car battery even though it can deliver 100's of amps.

Really when the voltage reaches a certain point it alone will probably kill you just from the arc. 1 million volts would probably be instant death even at a very low current. Static electricity is in that range though but the current is VERY low.
I got a ~400,000V shock once! A few times, actually. It was from a Van de Graaf generator. Arced about 2 feet and got me. It definitely hurt plenty, but was harmless. Much larger electrostatic generators can be dangerous though.
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Old 05-31-2012, 05:03 PM   #25
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High Voltage! Need a 50-75 kv Transformer


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I got a ~400,000V shock once! A few times, actually. It was from a Van de Graaf generator. Arced about 2 feet and got me. It definitely hurt plenty, but was harmless. Much larger electrostatic generators can be dangerous though.
That's at extremely low amperage I would imagine though, but yeah those things can be fun.

When I was in high school we were doing a chain thing with one. I was the ******* at the very end of the string that grabbed onto the faucet.
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Old 06-10-2012, 01:08 AM   #26
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High Voltage! Need a 50-75 kv Transformer


Thank you to those of you that gave useful advice. I am sorry that I am upsetting the rest of you that I am working with devices that pose dangers to my health. If we are being technical, home wiring is also dangerous and can kill you if you don't handle it properly. I am neither stupid nor have a death wish which is why I am learning as much as possible before attempting to build such a machine. I am building this precisely because I love learning and love applying my knowledge to things that interest me, but doing it safely.

Regarding why I came here to ask rather than somewhere else is that I was mostly concerned with getting ideas for devices that had high voltage transformers in them and getting better safety information from this forum, not necessarily learning to build this machine here... However, some of you seem to have helpful information so I will continue posting and will post pics if this works out.

Here is a few of the sites that I am reading myself. If you want to follow along and give advice. In terms of shielding, I will definitely purchase or fabricate lead shielding for the device and I have several nice Geiger counters to choose from to monitor the radiation levels both near the tube and at the site I am standing to make certain I am safe. I do want children some day so I am willing to invest a lot into making this safe.

I am still trying to settle on a good current, so if you have suggestions, let me know. I like the idea of using neon sign transformers though which was one that I was originally considering if I couldn't find anything better. I don't want to go through the trouble of building the coil from scratch.

Can somebody tell me why a stun gun's internals wouldn't work? I haven't really looked into using it until just now so may learn very quickly why that is a bad idea. Besides the fact that they are not rated for continuous usage and have low current, would they not work?

Sites:

http://www.celnav.de/hv/hv5.htm

http://www.ndt-ed.org/EducationResou...Generators.htm

http://www.dentallearning.org/course...cteristics.htm

Thank you again.
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Old 06-10-2012, 01:34 AM   #27
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High Voltage! Need a 50-75 kv Transformer


Stun gun parts might work. Probably won't last long though. You could probably use a circuit involving an automotive ignition coil with a few hundred volt capacitor discharging into its primary. That can produce 50-80kV at a couple mA average current.

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