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Old 05-29-2012, 09:17 AM   #46
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300.15 Boxes, Conduit Bodies, or Fittings —Where Required.
A box shall be installed at each outlet and switch
point for concealed knob-and-tube wiring.
Fittings and connectors shall be used only with the specific
wiring methods for which they are designed and listed.
Where the wiring method is conduit, tubing, Type AC
cable, Type MC cable, Type MI cable, nonmetallic-sheathed
cable, or other cables, a box or conduit body shall be installed
at each conductor splice point, outlet point, switch point, junction
point, termination point, or pull point, unless otherwise
permitted in 300.15(A) through (L).
We've cited this article many times already.
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Now, I know you are going to argue the definition of termination point, but with the other examples listed in this code rule, I don't see how it can be interpreted any other way that a cable dead-ended.
I can't see how this article is in any way referring to a dead-ended cable. It's simply not there.

As I said before, I know the intent, but intensions mean nothing when it comes to the written word of the law.

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Old 05-29-2012, 09:18 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Macro View Post
Yes, I am saying it in all seriousness.

Your walls are filled with live cables.

I still haven't seen where it's not permitted by electrical code. And I maintain that a "termination" is most certainly not a loose wire.

In no other part of the electrical code nor in normal electrical nomenclature is the word "termination" or the act of "terminating" referring to letting a loose wire hang freely.
Did you read the ROP I posted?
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Old 05-29-2012, 09:24 AM   #48
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Give me an example of what you think is a termination point that isn't covered by one of the other examples in the code rule.

Conductor splice point
Outlet Point
Switch point
Junction point
Pull point
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Old 05-29-2012, 09:25 AM   #49
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Then there is always Charlies rule.

Sometimes the Code doesn't say what you think it says.
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Answers based on the National Electrical Code. Local amendments may apply. Check with your local building officials.
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Old 05-29-2012, 09:26 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
The difference is that the endpoint is accessible if it is in a box. The ends of the energized cables are in boxes.

Macro, you are going to need to explain this one too.



The receptacle does not have to be 20 amps, the circuit it is on needs to be 20 amps.
Yes, the circuit that ONE receptacle is on has to be 20A. You can have other receptacles in the bathroom on a 15A circuit that is shared with other rooms. Once the requirement of 210.11(C)(3) is met you can do as you like with any other receptacle you want to add to the room.
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There have also been discussions about having a 15 amp holiday lighting circuit in a bathroom under the windows. IIRC the general opinion was that that was not allowed.
I'd like to read this, thanks.
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Article 210 says the bathroom receptacles need to be served by a 20 amp circuit.
Only 1 receptacle needs to be served by a 20A circuit. Look it up and you'll see.

Last edited by Macro; 05-29-2012 at 09:47 AM.
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Old 05-29-2012, 09:28 AM   #51
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Did you read the ROP I posted?
Yes, I read it last year when I saw that thread over at Holt's.

Did you read when I discussed the difference between intent and actual written code which we are bound by?

"As I said before, I know the intent, but intentions mean nothing when it comes to the written word of the law."
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Old 05-29-2012, 09:32 AM   #52
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Give me an example of what you think is a termination point that isn't covered by one of the other examples in the code rule.

Conductor splice point
Outlet Point
Switch point
Junction point
Pull point
How is giving you "an example of a termination point that isn't covered by another example" defining what a termination point is?

How have YOU defined a termination in all your years in the trade? If one of your workers said he terminated the cables and you come to the job to see a bunch of cables hanging loose in front of the panel, would you consider that correct?

In what other place in the code does a termination point reference a loose wire not connected to anything?
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Old 05-29-2012, 09:37 AM   #53
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Of course not...all end points of (the types of wiring listed) need to be ended (or terminated) inside a box or conduit body.
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Old 05-29-2012, 09:37 AM   #54
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Macro, read this please.

http://www.neca-neis.org/cqd/index.c...estion&id=3919
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Old 05-29-2012, 09:40 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Macro View Post
Yes, I read it last year when I saw that thread over at Holt's.

Did you read when I discussed the difference between intent and actual written code which we are bound by?

"As I said before, I know the intent, but intentions mean nothing when it comes to the written word of the law."
I am jumper at MH, care to tell me who you are?
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Old 05-29-2012, 09:40 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macro View Post
How is giving you "an example of a termination point that isn't covered by another example" defining what a termination point is?
Because with the wording of this rule, termination point can only mean one thing...an end point. The other meanings that you are implying are covered by the other examples listed.
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Old 05-29-2012, 09:42 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by k_buz View Post
Of course not...all end points of (the types of wiring listed) need to be ended (or terminated) inside a box or conduit body.
Ok, so if they aren't ended into a box or conduit body, they aren't terminated at all
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Old 05-29-2012, 09:44 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by k_buz View Post
Because with the wording of this rule, termination point can only mean one thing...an end point.
That is not clear in the code, it's just an assumption. In no other instance in the code or any part of electrical "lingo" is a "termination" a loose wire that isn't connected to anything, so my assuming is going in the opposite direction of your's.
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Old 05-29-2012, 09:45 AM   #59
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Because with the wording of this rule, termination point can only mean one thing...an end point. The other meanings that you are implying are covered by the other examples listed.
Even if that was true, does mentioning something twice make one of the instances change it's meaning? There are MANY redundancies in the code. That doesn't give a basis to change the definition of one of them.
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Old 05-29-2012, 09:46 AM   #60
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I am jumper at MH, care to tell me who you are?
I am not registered there, just browse.

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