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Old 05-28-2012, 06:39 PM   #16
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Here is 300.15 which I also agree would apply. Blue by me for emphasis.

300.15 Boxes, Conduit Bodies, or Fittings —Where Required.
A box shall be installed at each outlet and switch
point for concealed knob-and-tube wiring.
Fittings and connectors shall be used only with the specific
wiring methods for which they are designed and listed.
Where the wiring method is conduit, tubing, Type AC
cable, Type MC cable, Type MI cable, nonmetallic-sheathed
cable, or other cables,[COLOR="rgb(65, 105, 225)"] a box or conduit body shall be installed
at each conductor [/COLOR]splice point, outlet point, switch point, junction
point, termination point, or pull point, unless otherwise
permitted in 300.15(A) through (L).
I edited my last post to cover that. The wire is not terminated, which is why that article doesn't apply. I believe it was Marc Shunk, a Moderator at this forums sister site Electriciantalk.com, who went into detail about this.
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Old 05-28-2012, 06:40 PM   #17
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Termination could also mean an endpoint.
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Old 05-28-2012, 06:42 PM   #18
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Termination could also mean an endpoint.
It could, but does it mean that in electrical code?

When I tell a worker to terminate a set of wires, I want them landed on the lugs, not dangling in the air
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Old 05-28-2012, 06:45 PM   #19
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And the lugs would be in some kind of a box or enclosure, correct? You would not have a flying splice like the old K&T or an improperly made splice outside of a box.
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Old 05-28-2012, 06:45 PM   #20
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Termination could also mean an endpoint.
Personally I think the end of an energized cable/conductor is an outlet point in that section. But I can live with either.
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Old 05-28-2012, 06:46 PM   #21
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It could, but does it mean that in electrical code?

When I tell a worker to terminate a set of wires, I want them landed on the lugs, not dangling in the air
personally, I don't have an issue with it, and I just don't see the violation... when costs don't hinder the job, I will try to disconnect where it is fed from, but yeah, if I have to take a fixture down, its not happening.
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Old 05-28-2012, 06:47 PM   #22
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It could, but does it mean that in electrical code?

When I tell a worker to terminate a set of wires, I want them landed on the lugs, not dangling in the air
What is the definition of outlet point?
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Old 05-28-2012, 06:48 PM   #23
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And the lugs would be in some kind of a box or enclosure, correct? You would not have a flying splice like the old K&T or an improperly made splice outside of a box.
All of those would require a box, were talking about a dead ended wire.
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Old 05-28-2012, 06:50 PM   #24
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As I see the cable as a deadend I would not say the cable would would meet the NEC definition of an outlet. Potential outlet, maybe if it were re-purposed. I only say this as no current is being taken.

Outlet. A point on the wiring system at which current is
taken to supply utilization equipment.
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Old 05-28-2012, 07:17 PM   #25
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And the lugs would be in some kind of a box or enclosure, correct? You would not have a flying splice like the old K&T or an improperly made splice outside of a box.
Yes, lugs would be in an enclosure. But an abandoned live wire wouldn't be in an enclosure nor would it be terminated. We're not talking about splices here.
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Old 05-28-2012, 07:19 PM   #26
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What is the definition of outlet point?
I do not know what an "outlet point" is, but Jim defined "Outlet".

I don't believe that a loose wire in a wall would be either.
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Old 05-28-2012, 07:41 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
As I see the cable as a deadend I would not say the cable would would meet the NEC definition of an outlet. Potential outlet, maybe if it were re-purposed. I only say this as no current is being taken.

Outlet. A point on the wiring system at which current is
taken to supply utilization equipment.
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Originally Posted by Macro View Post
I do not know what an "outlet point" is, but Jim defined "Outlet".

I don't believe that a loose wire in a wall would be either.
As stated, there is no definition of out point- so as far as I am concerned it is the point where the actual current is supplied: the end of the energized wire.
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Old 05-28-2012, 07:54 PM   #28
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So let me pose this, a live splice would need to be in an accessible junction box, but a live deadended cable in a box could be buried?

I certainly don't think that is the intent.
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Old 05-28-2012, 08:18 PM   #29
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So let me pose this, a live splice would need to be in an accessible junction box, but a live deadended cable in a box could be buried?

I certainly don't think that is the intent.
If you are asking me, I already agreed. 300.15 prohibits IMO.
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Old 05-28-2012, 08:20 PM   #30
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I thought you did agree D, but I thought the others did not and was looking to see other thoughts.
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