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Old 05-29-2012, 04:01 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by Code05 View Post
Fellas at this point we are being trolled by some ET guy that cannot make it at MH. I am done. Bye Macaroni.

Dude, if ET is your only source, I feel sorry for ya.
I don't post at ET either, I only browse.

I had respect for you, jumper. It's unfortunate that I now see your true colors.

I've maintained the same thing from the beginning. What I said is in line with the opinions of MANY other people. The word termination is in the NEC hundreds of times, but it NEVER means the loose end of a wire in any of those other instances, it ALWAYS is used when speaking about making some type of connection. So I can't see how it could be used to accurately mean that in 300.15.

If you don't agree with that, fine. It's just a difference of opinion. But it most certainly doesn't make me a troll. And for you to lower yourself to that level and accuse me of being one simply because you don't agree with my opinion shows what you are truly made of.

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Old 05-29-2012, 04:02 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by k_buz View Post
For people looking at this thread for information (not that I think they would read all this crap to get to this point) abandoning a live wire in a wall or ceiling is not standard practice.
Untrue. it is standard practice to abandon a live K&T wire in a wall or ceiling. And as we all know, it is perfectly legal even by what you have said earlier in the thread.
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If this was done, any inspector would require that live ends of a cable be dead-ended in a box.
Again, untrue. Inspectors allow it very often.
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Old 05-29-2012, 04:04 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
I don't even think Cletis would troll this hard.
Another person taking the low road, good for you
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Old 05-29-2012, 04:10 PM   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macro View Post
I don't post at ET either, I only browse.

I had respect for you, jumper. It's unfortunate that I now see your true colors.

I've maintained the same thing from the beginning. What I said is in line with the opinions of MANY other people. The word termination is in the NEC hundreds of times, but it NEVER means the loose end of a wire in any of those other instances, it ALWAYS is used when speaking about making some type of connection. So I can't see how it could be used to accurately mean that in 300.15.

If you don't agree with that, fine. It's just a difference of opinion. But it most certainly doesn't make me a troll. And for you to lower yourself to that level and accuse me of being one simply because you don't agree with my opinion shows what you are truly made of.
My colors are my creds and sources, name yours. And you called me jumper, I reserve that for MH members. Care to play over there?
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Old 05-29-2012, 04:19 PM   #155
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I don't know what else to say. Three members here in the trade and two Mods at MH and 11 members of a CMP all agree that a box is needed. All you have to support your stance is Marc S and your own opinion.
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Old 05-29-2012, 04:20 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by Code05 View Post
My colors are my creds and sources, name yours.
So you're going to start bragging too, huh? Some of you will do ANYTHING except discuss the topic at hand, won't you? You STILL (after asking 25+ times) haven't explained why the NEC doesn't use the word "termination" in ANY of the hundreds of times it uses it to mean the end of a loose wire. The reason that you are not answering that is because you CAN'T. Your "cred" (which has been busted) doesn't change that. You can't use "cred" to refute an argument that you have no other way to argue.
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And you called me jumper, I reserve that for MH members.
I could care less what you want. You called me a troll because you got mad that you didn't win an argument. I reserve being called a troll only for people who actually can prove it, jumper.
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Care to play over there?
Why? I already said that I am not registered. Why would you want to "play" over there? Do you think you are some type of big man on campus or something? You want to "play" on your own turf? Do you realize how much of a child you are being, jumper?

So why do you want me to register over there? What would you say there that you can't say here to refute what I said? Give me a reason and I'll register. If you can't give me a reason, than I will see it as yet another way for you to cop-out like you've been doing the entire thread, jumper.

BTW, there are also plenty of threads on this topic over at MH. Why don't you do back over there and tell all the people who see it the way that I do that they are wrong and trolls.

Like I said, your true colors have certainly come out
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Old 05-29-2012, 04:23 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
I don't know what else to say. Three members here in the trade and two Mods at MH and 11 members of a CMP all agree that a box is needed. All you have to support your stance is Marc S and your own opinion.
So the thread that I linked to and all the other threads that you should have searched for at ET, MH, etc. only have Marc S. agreeing with my side? Is that what you maintain? Are you saying that the thread that I linked to didn't have at least a dozen people agreeing with my side? Are you saying that the threads at MH don't also have many people agreeing with my side? Because if it is what you are saying, then you are a bold faced liar.
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Old 05-29-2012, 04:44 PM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macro View Post
So you're going to start bragging too, huh? Some of you will do ANYTHING except discuss the topic at hand, won't you? You STILL (after asking 25+ times) haven't explained why the NEC doesn't use the word "termination" in ANY of the hundreds of times it uses it to mean the end of a loose wire. The reason that you are not answering that is because you CAN'T. Your "cred" (which has been busted) doesn't change that. You can't use "cred" to refute an argument that you have no other way to argue.
I could care less what you want. You called me a troll because you got mad that you didn't win an argument. I reserve being called a troll only for people who actually can prove it, jumper.


Why? I already said that I am not registered. Why would you want to "play" over there? Do you think you are some type of big man on campus or something? You want to "play" on your own turf? Do you realize how much of a child you are being, jumper?

So why do you want me to register over there? What would you say there that you can't say here to refute what I said? Give me a reason and I'll register. If you can't give me a reason, than I will see it as yet another way for you to cop-out like you've been doing the entire thread, jumper.

BTW, there are also plenty of threads on this topic over at MH. Why don't you do back over there and tell all the people who see it the way that I do that they are wrong and trolls.

Like I said, your true colors have certainly come out
See, there is your problem. Did I say you were a troll or did I say we were being trolled?

You read, but do not see( comprehend),
You hear, but you do not listen.
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Old 05-29-2012, 04:48 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by Code05 View Post
See, there is your problem. Did I say you were a troll or did I say we were being trolled?

You read, but do not see( comprehend),
You hear, but you do not listen.
Yeah, because you meant that you were being trolled by a nice guy that isn't a troll.

Nice cop-out about everything else, you're good at that. You haven't answered the question I asked 26+ times, you haven't explained why you want me to register at Holt's, nothing as usual. It must suck to want to win an argument so bad but not be able to...

When I said that I respected you, I wasn't being honest. I only said it to add to the insult. In reality, I always thought you were a bald weirdo that looks like a child molester. Your biceps are as skinny as a 9 year old girl's. No wonder you will die an alone virgin.

Hey, you wanted to give up speaking about code and get personal, right?
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Old 05-29-2012, 05:04 PM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macro View Post
Yeah, because you meant that you were being trolled by a nice guy that isn't a troll.

Nice cop-out about everything else, you're good at that. You haven't answered the question I asked 26+ times, you haven't explained why you want me to register at Holt's, nothing as usual. It must suck to want to win an argument so bad but not be able to...

When I said that I respected you, I wasn't being honest. I only said it to add to the insult. In reality, I always thought you were a bald weirdo that looks like a child molester. Your biceps are as skinny as a 9 year old girl's. No wonder you will die an alone virgin.

Hey, you wanted to give up speaking about code and get personal, right?
Well, ya got the bald part right, the rest -not so much.

Are we having fun yet, I ferget?
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Old 05-29-2012, 05:04 PM   #161
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I just read the thread you linked to on page 1 and will say that except for Marc and 220/221 and maybe one other the majority were saying it is not allowed for the same reasons that have been stated in this thread. Some even included dictionary definitions of the word terminate or terminal.
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Old 05-29-2012, 05:11 PM   #162
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The NEC does not define words like lug, panel or terminal and many others. Does that mean that we cannot resort to the dictionary?

Note the first part of Article 100:

Scope. This article contains only those definitions essential
to the proper application of this Code. It is not intended to
include commonly defined general terms or commonly defined
technical terms from related codes and standards
. In
general, only those terms that are used in two or more
articles are defined in Article 100. Other definitions are
included in the article in which they are used but may be
referenced in Article 100.
Part I of this article contains definitions intended to
apply wherever the terms are used throughout this Code.
Part II contains definitions applicable only to the parts of
articles specifically covering installations and equipment
operating at over 600 volts, nominal.
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Old 05-29-2012, 05:20 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
The NEC does not define words like lug, panel or terminal and many others. Does that mean that we cannot resort to the dictionary?
I've answered this many, many times. You are clearly being willfully ignorant.

Of course you can use the dictionary, or a commonly used definition. However, there are MANY definitions of some words.

As I said at least 5 times already, the word "terminate" also means to assassinate or kill. Because that is a definition in the dictionary, should we automatically assume that the NEC means it that way? No, right?

We need to use logic, context, etc. to figure out what the NEC means.

Now for the 27+ time, if you would like to know what definition the NEC uses, the smartest way would be to see how they use the word in other parts of their writing, correct?

Well in the many hundreds of times that the word is used in the NEC, not a single one of them refers to the end of a loose wire. ALL instances of that word are referring to some type of connection.

So, I think it's perfectly logical to interprete the way it's used in 300.15 in the same fashion as the way it's used in all the other 500+ instances that it appears in the book.

No one has proven what I just said to be false in any way. It's simply my opinion on the matter, and I have shown the logic behind it. If that makes me a troll or Cletis, then so be it. But that doesn't change the fact that this part of the code is not clear and up for interpretation.
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Old 05-29-2012, 05:29 PM   #164
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You are still relying on that tired view that a word means the same thing because it is used more times one way than another. You keep bringing up assassinate as a meaning, but you ignore that termination also means an end.

I don't think you will see it any other way so I am dropping out before PETA gets involved for beating a dead horse or trying to get the horse to drink from the water of knowledge.
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Old 05-29-2012, 05:31 PM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macro View Post

No one has proven what I just said to be false in any way. It's simply my opinion on the matter, and I have shown the logic behind it. If that makes me a troll or Cletis, then so be it. But that doesn't change the fact that this part of the code is not clear and up for interpretation.
Ya sure sound like Cletis and you have not shown any creds or sources besides ET. What are we to expect or think?

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