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Old 06-09-2010, 09:35 AM   #31
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that makes no sense what so ever.
No it doesn't and thinking that a breaker is going to fall on or off doesn't make any sense either.
We have millions of breakers installed here in Canada and having them installed one way or another makes no difference.

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Old 06-09-2010, 12:02 PM   #32
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That link doesn't work because it links to another forum where you need to be logged in to see it.
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Old 06-09-2010, 01:00 PM   #33
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I actually enjoy the show. But I certainly don't watch it for code guidance. As for where the money comes from, the Holmes Foundation is a nonprofit foundation that helps homeowners victimized by shoddy contractors. It also sponsors apprenticeships and scholarships for training people in the building trades.
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Old 06-09-2010, 01:08 PM   #34
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Thanks md...you just went and wrecked a perfectly good hate-on
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Old 06-09-2010, 02:15 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by nap View Post
yes, gravity.

a breaker is a disconnect and disconnects are required to be down when in the off position (if the motion is vertical). This way it cannot unintentionally fall into the "on" position.
it MAY be code, but how on god's green earth does a breaker "fall" into the off position?
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Old 06-09-2010, 02:21 PM   #36
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wow theatretch..you sure opened a can o' worms here
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Old 06-09-2010, 03:13 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by NitroNate View Post
it MAY be code, but how on god's green earth does a breaker "fall" into the off position?


I have never had one so bad that it would. If the detent that holds the handle in the off position weakens or whoever turns it off doesn't push the handle far enough to engage the detent together with a loose pivot, I could see it happening.

a snap switch is a legal disco in some situations. I have had snap switches that were so loose they did not hold well in any position.

and with all code requirements: doesn't mean it happens a lot, doesn't mean it happened to you or somebody you know. In fact, it doesn't even mean it ever happened. It just means that somebody presented it to the code committee and enough of them thought it was a good enough idea to incorporate into the code.
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Old 06-09-2010, 05:21 PM   #38
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Quote:
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and with all code requirements: doesn't mean it happens a lot, doesn't mean it happened to you or somebody you know. In fact, it doesn't even mean it ever happened. It just means that somebody presented it to the code committee and enough of them thought it was a good enough idea to incorporate into the code.
Or, it means that one time there was a hugely catastrophic result that caused the requirement.

Bought a bench grinder in the last 8 or so years? It's got a 3x3 piece of plexi shield on it - because an young teen put a chisel (or screw driver) through his skull when he used one without it.

So what if it's stupid? Just think about how many stupid laws on the books to prevent a relatively inconceivable and unlikely outcomes?

Gone through airport security anytime lately?

It's not smart and it's not infallible - it just IS the way it IS.
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Old 06-09-2010, 06:21 PM   #39
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Or, it means that one time there was a hugely catastrophic result that caused the requirement.
Or it could mean that the code committee felt compelled come up with something/anything to justify their wages!

PS. Bench grinders have had eye shields equipped for at least 60 years that I know of.
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Old 06-09-2010, 07:49 PM   #40
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That link doesn't work because it links to another forum where you need to be logged in to see it.
Sorry about that mix-up. I have edited the post and uploaded the pix directly to this forum.
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Old 06-09-2010, 07:52 PM   #41
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Here is a picture showing a Square D (Canadian version) panel with the "blast shield" in place, and removed:
I'd prefer to have the Canadian version
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Old 06-09-2010, 09:08 PM   #42
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That's the panel I want to get shortly to replace my old fuse box.

Haven't heard anything bad about them yet.
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Old 06-09-2010, 09:39 PM   #43
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Makes perfect sense, in a 3-way setup, lights are on when one up and one down. Both up would turn off light. If one fell because of gravity, the light would turn on.
those are not disconnects so it doesn't apply.
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Old 06-09-2010, 09:45 PM   #44
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I'd prefer to have the Canadian version
I like the idea overall but it causes problems.


It kills the entire top for bringing in branch circuits. Where conduit is used, that would really be a pain in the butt.

for adding circuits (even with NM), it makes things unduly complicated as well. Where you would be able to knock out a knock out from the inside and run NM up into the attic, it makes things much more complicated if you would have to bring them in the side.
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Old 06-10-2010, 08:43 AM   #45
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I like the idea overall but it causes problems.


It kills the entire top for bringing in branch circuits. Where conduit is used, that would really be a pain in the butt.

for adding circuits (even with NM), it makes things unduly complicated as well. Where you would be able to knock out a knock out from the inside and run NM up into the attic, it makes things much more complicated if you would have to bring them in the side.

We are allowed to mount the panel upside down in that case. The main breaker on the bottom.

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