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Old 07-09-2013, 07:44 PM   #31
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Help with tapped sub panel.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennsparky
Can you post pictures of the 100A disconnect on the right? Especially of the whole box with the cover off? Being physically bigger it has more room for legal splices(taps). And it may not be a scary train wreck like the one on the left.

You could use outdoor listed Liquidtight Flexible Nonmetallic Conduit (LFNC-B = Carflex) and easily route it over the top of the main. You could mount a four space panel to the right of the main and be in business.
Split bolts have wire size ranges embossed on them. If the large conductor and the small conductor fall within those ranges, you are good to go. They are also embossed AL, CU or AL/Cu. Use only split bolts for the type of wire you have.
There are good and bad electricians, just like any profession. Cover yourself. Always get permits and inspections.
Anti-ox is primarily an aluminum wire issue. Those wires look like copper. For normal, noncorrosive location, residential wiring, anti-ox is never used on copper.
I can do that tomorrow. Now, the grounded (neutral) bus should be isolated. Should I run a ground wire bonded to the box to the ground rod if I use liquid tight (since it's non-conductive)???
Also, if a 4 space is needed, backfed 100 amp with tie down then my 20 amp branch circuit???

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Old 07-09-2013, 09:35 PM   #32
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Help with tapped sub panel.


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Now, the grounded (neutral) bus should be isolated.
Isolated in the new 4 space box. The first OCPD box at the end of the service conductors has a combined ground/neutral bar. Like the one in the 100A disconnect on the left. Where you see the ground(bare) and neutral(black with white stripe) coming off the same bar.

So you'll buy a ground bar kit for the new 4 space box. The neutral bar will come preinstalled.
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Should I run a ground wire bonded to the box to the ground rod if I use liquid tight (since it's non-conductive)???
No, you run a white and a green (bare) from the ground/neutral bar. Which I hope the disconnect on the right has, just like the one on the left did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericmunyon12345 View Post
Also, if a 4 space is needed, backfed 100 amp with tie down then my 20 amp branch circuit???
You can, if you want all that power for future use.

For a low amp tap I use Insulation Piercing Connectors(IPC). They are a lot easier and safer than split bolts. But just like split bolts they have two wire ranges. The bottom of the range for the smaller conductor will probably be around #6. For simplicity it's easier to run that for the hot(s). Then backfeed an appropriate sized breaker. For #6, around 60 amps.

Last edited by Glennsparky; 07-09-2013 at 09:41 PM.
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Old 07-10-2013, 02:03 PM   #33
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Help with tapped sub panel.


Glennsparky, you've been SUPER helpful! Thanks so much! I'll get a pick up of the far right box as soon as I can, and I'll look forward to more great advice if I have any questions.
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Old 07-10-2013, 07:29 PM   #34
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Help with tapped sub panel.


Pics of center and right disconnects. My bad, right is also 200, not 100. Tell me if they are, but neither of these look easier than the far left panel (see first post).

Also, can you explain why the two space won't work (orig. plan was feed to lugs then 20 amp breaker to plug and light). Does the branch circuit disconnect just need to be in the same box? Again, thanks for any and all help!
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Old 07-11-2013, 05:06 AM   #35
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Help with tapped sub panel.


You are one stubborn SOB. Why do you continually harp on your first ideas?

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... neither of these look easier than the far left panel (see first post).
The left disco. is all F*ed up! It needs to be replaced! You can kill two birds and replace it with a panel. But I am not going to help you make it worse.

The other two are in much better condition. But the middle box has code issues.
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Originally Posted by ericmunyon12345 View Post
...Also, can you explain why the two space won't work (orig. plan was feed to lugs then 20 amp breaker to plug and light). *Does the branch circuit disconnect just need to be in the same box?
Did you marry that box? Here's a life lesson, don't buy stuff before you know what you're doing.

If the two space panel will accept a hold down kit, then you could back feed a double pole twenty. Then use the main lugs for the load. The main lugs and breaker lugs have wire ranges. If the wire for your runs is not in the range, then you must pigtail a short piece of appropriately sized wire to fit in the lugs.

This is a lot of work just to have something with no expandability. Your way is a dead end. An extra 50 bucks in materials is nothing compared to the labor.

If cost is really the issue, I can guide you to inexpensive materials.

Last edited by Glennsparky; 07-11-2013 at 06:44 AM.
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Old 07-11-2013, 06:32 AM   #36
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Help with tapped sub panel.


So let's start fresh with the disco on the right.

Let's start with saying you don't need two circuits. One 75 watt bulb pulls less than an amp. You won't even notice it on the receptacle circuit. So, you could get by with one tap, black, white, ground. And not power half the new panel.

Go to this website and look at the dimensions of this Insulation Piercing Connector.
http://www.penn-union.com/products/p...connector.aspx
Will it fit on that left load wire and let you screw the dead front back on?

IPC fun facts: google, insulation piercing connectors, and there's a u-tube video on how to install them from one of the manufacturers. Amazon and Ebay sell them cheap, but we would need to know exactly what size wire it's going on. Finding wire size is a PITA unless it's written on the insulation.

Next, here's the plan for the white and green wire. Get a ground bar that will fit at least a #6 copper wire. Like this one.
http://www.lowes.com/pd_67691-296-PK...ductId=3452232
Shut off the power at the main. Mount the ground bar in the upper right corner of the disco. Disconnect the stranded copper ground wire in the smaller lug. Take a piece of #6 copper wire and split bolt it to the ground wire. Feed it through the smaller lug and up into the new ground bar. Torque screws to spec.

Let me know if all that's doable.
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Old 07-11-2013, 07:14 AM   #37
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Help with tapped sub panel.


Can you take another picture of that far right box? I need the whole box in frame. So I can confirm that the copper wires come from the main and the AL wires are the load.
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Old 07-13-2013, 11:40 AM   #38
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Help with tapped sub panel.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennsparky
Can you take another picture of that far right box? I need the whole box in frame. So I can confirm that the copper wires come from the main and the AL wires are the load.
Ha, yes, I am stubborn and hard to live with...I can barely tolerate myself some days. Thanks again for all the help, though, and I'll try to get that pic within a couple days.
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Old 07-14-2013, 09:34 PM   #39
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Help with tapped sub panel.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennsparky
Can you take another picture of that far right box? I need the whole box in frame. So I can confirm that the copper wires come from the main and the AL wires are the load.
Far right box in frame.
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