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Old 07-04-2013, 08:19 PM   #1
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Help with tapped sub panel.


I want to pull (split bolts?) from the far left panel. I want to add a two space outdoor panel. I only need one 20 amp breaker for a recep and a 75 watt flood light. Tips on doing this would be great. I think I should tap the line side of that 100 amp box (b/c the load wires are so large for voltage drop...someone actually snipped several of the strands to fit it in the breaker terminal). I plan to use #6 cu thhn/thwn. The line side of that box is still load side of service drop (fed by large box with lever switch / lockout).
In the new two space, the neutral bus stays isolated, right? So, should I just attach the egc from the new plug and light to the box? The new box will be bonded to the 100 amp box via the nipple.
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Old 07-04-2013, 09:11 PM   #2
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Help with tapped sub panel.


Those terminals are for one conductor only. You cannot tap there.

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Answers based on the National Electrical Code. Local amendments may apply. Check with your local building officials.
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Old 07-04-2013, 09:28 PM   #3
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Help with tapped sub panel.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Port
Those terminals are for one conductor only. You cannot tap there.
Right, but COULD I join to wires with split bolts? (This will not be inspected.). From the sub panel, I would run individual
Conductors in liquid tight transitioning to PVC.
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Old 07-05-2013, 03:15 AM   #4
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Help with tapped sub panel.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ericmunyon12345 View Post
(This will not be inspected.)
You already have burnt insulation and damaged conductors above those line side lugs. And unsafe hack work on the load side. So, let's concentrate on doing this right. For property resale value, for insurability and, dare I say it, for safety.

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Right, but COULD I join to wires with split bolts?
If the wire from meter to main was rated for 420+ amps and the wire to the 100A breaker was rated for 120+ amps(it isn't), then we could bother to do a fill calculation. Otherwise split bolts and the tap rules are used on the load side of breakers.

In either case you need a new panel with at least four breaker spaces. Two spaces for a back fed breaker with a hold down clamp and two for the load.

The only way to use that new two space panel is to replace the 100A breaker with a quad. Unfortunately, the largest quad is 50A. Since that circuit is already burning up, 50A is definitely not going to make it.
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Old 07-05-2013, 04:47 AM   #5
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Help with tapped sub panel.


I think your best bet is to replace that disconnect with a panel. There are a couple of ways to do it. You'll need to do some pricing and research.

You're also going to need to change those line wires from the main disconnect.

You have two choices for panels. An outdoor 100A main breaker panel with feed through lugs.

Or a Main Lug Panel with at least a 100A stab rating on the busses. Get a regular 100A breaker and a hold down kit. Back feed that breaker and use the main lugs for those aluminum feed wires.

Sorry, this is a much bigger job than you bargained for.
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Old 07-05-2013, 05:46 AM   #6
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Help with tapped sub panel.


Quote:
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I think your best bet is to replace that disconnect with a panel.
This is your best bet, with what your trying to do.

Also, you couldn't "tap" that with #6's anyway.

Just because this isn't inspected doesn't mean you shouldn't do it right.
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Old 07-05-2013, 07:05 AM   #7
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Help with tapped sub panel.


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Originally Posted by wirenut1110 View Post

This is your best bet, with what your trying to do.

Also, you couldn't "tap" that with #6's anyway.

Just because this isn't inspected doesn't mean you shouldn't do it right.
Agreed! I only stated that because sometimes something perfectly safe and functional still isn't code. I may call someone in if there are problems with existing. Thanks.
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Old 07-05-2013, 07:22 AM   #8
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Help with tapped sub panel.


I'll agree with that somewhat.

I feel the NEC is starting to change for "customer convenience" and to make things "idiot proof" rather than what's safe/unsafe.

Unfortunately, some of the representatives on the code making committees, have their interest in mind rather than what's safe and practical.

However, people have mandated that, this is what they want by the way they vote. It isn't "change" it's dollars
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Old 07-05-2013, 10:09 AM   #9
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Help with tapped sub panel.


So is there general agreement that I should not tap from here? If so, I'll look at trenching from a load center...sounds like it might be less involved.
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Old 07-05-2013, 12:39 PM   #10
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Help with tapped sub panel.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ericmunyon12345 View Post
If so, I'll look at trenching from a load center...sounds like it might be less involved.
Not saying that.
Replace the disconnect with one of these.
Take your 100 amp breaker and install it in this panel with a hold down kit.
Then, the wires that are connected to the load side of your breaker now, will then hook to the lugs on the new panel, THEN you will have space for 2 single pole breakers or tandems or whatever.
The wires from your main will hook to your 100 amp breaker therefore, you'll be backfeeding the new panel.

Last edited by wirenut1110; 07-05-2013 at 12:42 PM. Reason: more info
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Old 07-05-2013, 01:14 PM   #11
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Help with tapped sub panel.


I dont see how the transfer switch is legal not being service rated and all.....
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Old 07-05-2013, 02:27 PM   #12
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Help with tapped sub panel.


Quote:
Originally Posted by stickboy1375
I dont see how the transfer switch is legal not being service rated and all.....
Help me out. Transfer switch=the lever switch that is the main shutoff? Or the 100 amp switch I wanted to pull from?
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Old 07-05-2013, 02:36 PM   #13
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Help with tapped sub panel.


Quote:
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I dont see how the transfer switch is legal not being service rated and all.....
It is, it has a center "off" position.
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Old 07-05-2013, 02:38 PM   #14
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Help with tapped sub panel.


Quote:
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It is, it has a center "off" position.
and? is it service rated? Where is the OCPD before the transfer switch?

Last edited by stickboy1375; 07-05-2013 at 02:44 PM.
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Old 07-05-2013, 02:46 PM   #15
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Help with tapped sub panel.


The difference in service rated and non-service rated is the center off position.

These switches don't have any OCP but have the center off position and are listed for use as service equipment.

I just got in a disagreement on another forum because I would think it needs some sort of OCP. Just isn't always what I think...lol

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