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Old 09-26-2012, 12:03 PM   #1
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Help please


Ok today an electrician has carried out a electrical installation condition report on a care home my family own.
A few things he has mentioned needing work and I'm unsure, he has mentioned.

1. Approximately half of sockets have bare earth wires twisted together with no sleeving ( I asked him to sleeve theseand he has said he can't do this with our turning the power off, is this correct? Due to the areas needed doing its not easy to turn the power off . Can't they be sleeves with power on as he's not disconnecting the live and neutrals?

2. Metal back boxes with both fixed lugs have no earth straps to metal back box, is this required? I know it wasn't when the property was wired.

3. Metal back box entry hole has cable running into them carries by trunking but u can still see inside hole, no grommets , does this need grommets?

I look forward to your urgent help a he's suppose to be coming back in the morning but I don't want to turn power off if sleeving can be done with power as there is high risk areas due to the nature of the residents .

Thanks again in advance

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Old 09-26-2012, 12:44 PM   #2
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Pictures would help us understand better what you have. And mentioning what country you are in will also help.

Pulling receptacles out of the wall and working on the wiring is always much safer with the power turned off. By sleeving I take it you mean there are no crimp connectors or wire nuts on the ground wires?

I'm not sure what you mean by a metal back box or trunking. But electric cables must use proper box fittings in metal boxes.

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Old 09-26-2012, 01:01 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaz2509
Ok today an electrician has carried out a electrical installation condition report on a care home my family own.
A few things he has mentioned needing work and I'm unsure, he has mentioned.

1. Approximately half of sockets have bare earth wires twisted together with no sleeving ( I asked him to sleeve theseand he has said he can't do this with our turning the power off, is this correct? Due to the areas needed doing its not easy to turn the power off . Can't they be sleeves with power on as he's not disconnecting the live and neutrals?

2. Metal back boxes with both fixed lugs have no earth straps to metal back box, is this required? I know it wasn't when the property was wired.

3. Metal back box entry hole has cable running into them carries by trunking but u can still see inside hole, no grommets , does this need grommets?

I look forward to your urgent help a he's suppose to be coming back in the morning but I don't want to turn power off if sleeving can be done with power as there is high risk areas due to the nature of the residents .

Thanks again in advance
To know for sure if it is required we need to know if where you live. It would be here. If the electrician feels he can't safely work live then you should try to find a time when he can.
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Old 09-26-2012, 01:04 PM   #4
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In in the uk, in Gloucestershire.

I have a twin and earth radial and basically the lives and neutrals are connected but the earth wires are bare, no earth sleeving on it but are connected.
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Old 09-26-2012, 01:05 PM   #5
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Old 09-26-2012, 01:43 PM   #6
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I can't really speak for code in the UK but that wouldn't be allowed here.
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Old 09-26-2012, 03:59 PM   #7
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In the US we need no sleeving on the bare grounds (earth), those would be fine if the clamp is approved for two wires. But we do require a fitting where a cable enters the metal box.

Perhaps a UK electrician will weigh in.
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Old 09-26-2012, 04:25 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Gaz2509 View Post
Ok today an electrician has carried out a electrical installation condition report on a care home my family own.
A few things he has mentioned needing work and I'm unsure, he has mentioned.

1. Approximately half of sockets have bare earth wires twisted together with no sleeving ( I asked him to sleeve theseand he has said he can't do this with our turning the power off, is this correct? Due to the areas needed doing its not easy to turn the power off . Can't they be sleeves with power on as he's not disconnecting the live and neutrals?

2. Metal back boxes with both fixed lugs have no earth straps to metal back box, is this required? I know it wasn't when the property was wired.

3. Metal back box entry hole has cable running into them carries by trunking but u can still see inside hole, no grommets , does this need grommets?

I look forward to your urgent help a he's suppose to be coming back in the morning but I don't want to turn power off if sleeving can be done with power as there is high risk areas due to the nature of the residents .

Thanks again in advance
Current should not be flowing on the ground. But there is no guarantee that it is not.

If current is flowing on the ground and you untwist the cluster of ground wires to put the sleeve on, then there will be a spark.

No problem sleeving the ground wires if you can do it without taking them apart.\\

Twisting the ground wires together is nowadays not good enough, you need a crimp sleeve or a wire nut.

For metal boxes (outlet boxes, junction boxes, panels, etc.) the box itself has to be connected to the ground wires (equipment grounding conductors) using a screw that is not the screw holding on a clamp that in turn holds wires or cables entering the box. For a subpanel, the ground bus (terminal strip), if properly attached, is sufficient. For the panel with the main disconnect switch or breaker the neutral bus needs to be bonded to the panel for example using a jumper strip or with a bonding screw that digs into the panel back.

Where wires enter the panel, a bushing or grommet is needed so the sharp edges of the panel hole or the end of a conduit do not cut the wires.
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Last edited by AllanJ; 09-26-2012 at 04:32 PM.
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Old 09-27-2012, 12:48 AM   #9
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I live in France so I should know this answer.,,

First of all the junction box that is wrong it have to be flush to the wall per BS17 Edition regulations.,

For the earth conductors you can turn the breaker / fuse off for that circuit so you can sleeve it up but some local area may just let it slide without issue at all.

At the box fitting you should have a rubber groument or simiuair to protect the Twin et earth cable.

Merci,
Marc
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Old 09-27-2012, 08:15 AM   #10
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Yes the electrician *must* turn off the electricity before doing this work. He is entitled to be able to work safely just as other workers are.

In addition to worker safety, it is very possible that if someone were to work on those outlets with the electricity on, a "short" could occur while removing the outlet or reinstalling it into the wall. That would trip the breaker and then your power would go out too!

So if this is a "care home" where life critical equipment is being used, then I would recommend renting a generator and using extension cords to power that equipment while the power is off. Then everybody will be safe. Note many generators produce "dirty" electricity, so check with the manufacturers of any medical equipment in use as to *which* generators can be used with their equipment.

An alternative to using a generator could be to run extension cords to a neighbor. Or to install a temporary electrical service.

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