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Old 04-20-2011, 10:35 PM   #1
ajm
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Help with new outlet installation


OK, I am getting a new sump pump installed and they are moving it across the cellar (away from existing outlet). I want to perform the following:

1) move the outlet and will need to extend wiring
2) install a GFCI outdoor outlet (15amp 20amp passthru)
off this outlet/run
Add'l info:the current outlet is a duplex 20a outlet only one on the circuit. So I figured it had to be 12awg wire feeding it. When I opened the box the outlet is pigtailed with 12AWG wire but to 14awg wire that goes to the fuse box and a 20a fuse.

All the way across my large cellar, so I prefer not to run all new 12AWG wire unless I really need to, If it helps the new pump indicates 10.6amp

On another note I actually will have another identical pump installed at the other end which currently has its own dedicated 15amp outlet to a 20amp fuse (looks like 14 awg again there) I do plan to use a dehumidifier 6.8a and other items shop vac etc from time to time. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

AJ

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Last edited by ajm; 04-20-2011 at 10:59 PM.
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Old 04-20-2011, 10:53 PM   #2
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Help with new outlet installation


First thing you need to do is verify the wire size. Is this "romex" cable that comes out of the fuse box? If so, it should be labeled on the sheathing. Do you really have fuses?

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Old 04-20-2011, 11:05 PM   #3
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Help with new outlet installation


Yes, a multifamily with a fuse box for the "common electric" needs. The fuse 20W only goes to this outlet. cable Not labeled but I opened the outlet and compared to 14-2 romex and confirmed with wire cutter it's definitely 14, the pigtail in outlet box is definitely larger 12-2 (not sure the purpose for a pigtail there?)
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Old 04-20-2011, 11:15 PM   #4
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Help with new outlet installation


Sounds like you need a 20 amp circuit with new wire. This is a multifamily structure? Are you a renter or the owner?
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Old 04-20-2011, 11:28 PM   #5
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Help with new outlet installation


If you are a renter then you have to talk to the landlord or the landlord will have to get ahold of the electrician to deal with this.

If you are the owner you may I say may do this depending on your state requirement and also some sump pump circuits will have nothing else on this circuit and no GFCI { I Know state of Wisconsin make a extempt as long it was singleplex but dupex then GFCI } as far for AFCI on sump pump I doubt it but check with your inspector for your area to see what they say about it.

Merci,
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Old 04-20-2011, 11:38 PM   #6
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Help with new outlet installation


I am the owner. I was thinking I could actually run the outdoor outlet off of the existing light fixture runs but there are 3 single light bulb fixtures and 2 overhead florescent (t8 bulbs) on that 15a circuit already I believe.

I am in Mass, but do not want to use GFCI makes no sense code or otherwise if it trips I am screwed, agreed? I will also have a battery backup system on one pump (closest to panel) and will need a duplex

So are we saying that having 14 gauge wire to 20 fuse is bad or against code or fine just will only get 15a service? And just to be clear the pumps do not require 20a outlet, but realize that using 20 circuit with 12 is optimal and as I understand it a 20a outlet is not needed as 15 is identical just cant accept 20amp devices..perhaps I have some unused circuits but not sure any of them are currently 20's..Thanks all

Last edited by ajm; 04-20-2011 at 11:46 PM.
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Old 04-20-2011, 11:49 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajm View Post
I am the owner. I was thinking I could actually run the outdoor outlet off of the existing light fixture runs but there are 3 single light bulb fixtures and 2 overhead florescent (t8 bulbs) on that 15a circuit already I believe. It can be doable but is those light stay on 24/7 or switched ? and I will advise to keep the outdoor receptale seperared from the luminarie circuits

I am in Mass, but do not want to use GFCI makes no sense code or otherwise if it trips I am screwed, agreed? I will also have a battery backup system on one pump (closest to panel) and will need a duplexIf I Recall the state of Mass do have extempt on that but not sure if still in effect or been changed I know one of the members in this fourm can confirm this part of that is legit or not but if you want to keep the sump pump on seperated circuit go with singleplex receptale that useally take care of it.

So are we saying that having 14 gauge wire to 20 fuse is bad or against code or fine just will only get 15a service? Thanks, perhaps I haveIf you have any 14 gauge conductor in that circuit it have to stay with 15 amps you can not use the 20 amp fuse or breaker on this circuit.
I answer it in bleu colour so you will know where my answer is.

I will get a hold one guy one way or other he may know little more about this state regulations to confirm it.

Merci,.
Marc
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Old 04-21-2011, 08:10 AM   #8
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Help with new outlet installation


Marc,

Thanks. I guess I will need to run new 12. The lights are on switches yes. Maybe I have an open slot in fuse box. If so I can swap out the fuse plug 15 to 20 and visa versa as needed, right? Thanks
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Old 04-22-2011, 12:39 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajm View Post
Marc,

Thanks. I guess I will need to run new 12. The lights are on switches yes. Maybe I have an open slot in fuse box. If so I can swap out the fuse plug 15 to 20 and visa versa as needed, right? Thanks
If I were you I will just grab a fuse adpatour to prevent putting a oversized fuse in there I think it call fusesat if I did say that name right it is smaller than edison base fuse size and it will have special threads they are very specfic for each amp class so bleu base is for 15 while orange is typically used with 20 amp then green is 25 or 30 amp

Something like this



That is pretty common item I carry with me when I live in state side but in France we use little diffrent than this one but pretty simauir to this.


I will also stay with #12 awg cable if you going to run in exposed then I will suggest to use the MC cable it give you little better protection than plain jane NM Cable is.

Merci,
Marc
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Old 11-07-2011, 08:12 PM   #10
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Help with new outlet installation


Sorry, I meant to start a new thread. Can a mod delete this for me please?

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