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Old 06-18-2008, 12:50 PM   #1
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Help with a mess


I am wiring up my addition which is just about done except for the home runs. This is the part I wasn't looking forward to. I need to straighten this mess out before the Inspector comes for the rough in. I did not make this mess so I hope this does'nt reflect on my workmanship. I am open to any critisism good and bad. What, in your opinions should I do here. should I go nuts and redo the whole install or can I salvage this mess.
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Old 06-18-2008, 01:00 PM   #2
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I tend to be fanatical about such things, but yours looks 100% better than my 50 year old house panel. IF you can prove that your new work is clean, maybe you are OK. Hopefully a sparky or two will chime in..

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Old 06-18-2008, 01:52 PM   #3
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I really do not see anything messy with it, other then you may think so.
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Old 06-18-2008, 01:53 PM   #4
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All he should look at is the work you are doing. The old stuff is not the best workmanship, but nothing that should cause alarm.
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Old 06-18-2008, 02:08 PM   #5
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Alright, here it goes. First, I would clean it up a bit, the AHJ has there own "workmanlike manner" definitions but I personally think it looks like s**t. The horizontal runs could be a little neater (seperated a little bit more. Maybe 2 cables per staple, depending on what they're rated for. It looks like stack-offs are being used but I can't tell. Looks like the strap on the SER is an EMT strap. The cables and mc need to be supported within 12" of the box (I'm sure they're exceptions but they never seem to apply to me.) The UF going to your sump alarm needs to be"protected from physical damge" I'm sure they wou I normally use one or 2 2" pvc nipples when I'm in a situation like this to chase the wire once I leave the floor joists. Of course no longer than 24" to eliminate the derating. Your AHJ may not mind but you may be able to nail a 2X4 between the floor joist and the top of your panel so you can properly strap cables and mc. That's enough for now.
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Old 06-18-2008, 02:09 PM   #6
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For an existing situation, it doesn't look too bad to me, except someone has draw red arrows all over the place.
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Old 06-18-2008, 02:09 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbfan View Post
All he should look at is the work you are doing. The old stuff is not the best workmanship, but nothing that should cause alarm.
I wish my AHJ's were like that.
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Old 06-18-2008, 02:15 PM   #8
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jb....what about E3305.1

Everywhere I look I see references to the space directly below the panel, and to a height of 6' above the panel not having any piping not related to the electrical equipment.

If this is correct, the waterline would be in violation, as the panel has no protection from drips.

My guess is that a drip tray with an overflow line would need to be installed, with the overflow line running away from the panel.

Look at Page 2

Section E3305

https://www2.iccsafe.org/states/Virg...quirements.pdf
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Old 06-18-2008, 02:24 PM   #9
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I think I would fasten a piece of plywood to the block wall above the panel with tapcons. This will give you something to staple the wires to as they leave the panel.
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Old 06-18-2008, 03:18 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mahjohn View Post
jb....what about E3305.1

Everywhere I look I see references to the space directly below the panel, and to a height of 6' above the panel not having any piping not related to the electrical equipment.

If this is correct, the waterline would be in violation, as the panel has no protection from drips.

My guess is that a drip tray with an overflow line would need to be installed, with the overflow line running away from the panel.

Look at Page 2

Section E3305

https://www2.iccsafe.org/states/Virg...quirements.pdf
That code specifically states that leak control apparatus are not permitted in the space above the panel. I believe that they started prohibiting drip pans or sleeving pipes above panels in the 2005 NEC. It used to be an option though.

As an inspector, I'd suggest attaching a 2x or some plywood over the panel to allow you to secure everything neatly. If I were doing the inspection, I wouldn't look at existing conditions such as the old wiring and the plumbing over the panel. Well, I'd look at them but wouldn't hold them against you. I might mention them, but would not turn them down. If the plumbing were new or the panel had been relocated, then you'd better get to work.
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Old 06-18-2008, 03:26 PM   #11
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I guess I'm too picky, no wonder I can't keep anyone I knew there was gonna be a problem when I started out in a plant where everything had to look like control panels.
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Old 06-18-2008, 03:33 PM   #12
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Is that a plumbing pipe running over the top of the panel box? if it is, cant be good
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Old 06-18-2008, 10:20 PM   #13
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The minute you start straightening up someone elses mess, is when the Inspector closes their book and walks out on you the minute they notice changes to pre-existing work.
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Old 06-18-2008, 11:00 PM   #14
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If it was me (mainly because I am anal and come from the commercial side) and wanted to clean it up this is what I would do.

I would get a junction box(12x12 at the minumin) and put all the wires(except the service entrance cable) in the junction box. I would drop down 4 or 5 1" pipes into the top of the panel and then run indvidual wires into the panel.

This is overkill especially in your situtaion but would make it look cleaner.
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Old 06-19-2008, 12:17 AM   #15
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I guess I better get to work. I'll start by straighting out the horizontal runs by stapling two cables stacked at a time and removing those stack offs, neaten them up a little bit. Then I am gonna tapcon a 2x to both sides of the SER for stapling the vertical NM's. Hopefully I will have enough slack to straighten this mess out or I will have to put the J-box in and extend the wires or just run a new home run which I might wind up doing on a couple anyway. Oh and to boot the pipe above the SER is a heating pipe 180 degrees worth. This is not a biggie I can reroute the pipe to the boiler. Well thanks for the ideas guys and the critisism it helped. I will get on it and post the results. Thankyou Thankyou

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