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Mr.HVAC 07-15-2012 05:39 PM

help with Installating GFCI
 
Hi everyone, I just installed 3 gfci outlets (1 in bathroom, 1 kitchen, and 1 outside). Just finishing installing it, I noticed that the one on the outside is rated for 20amp and all 3 of my gfci are 15amp. Will this be a safety issue? Should I install it with the right 20amp gfci?

Thanks

andrew79 07-15-2012 05:50 PM

well the bathroom is a wildcard, it depends on the size of the breaker. If it's 15a circuit then your fine. If it's a 20A circuit then i think your fine in the u.s but not fine in canada.

The kitchen needs to be a 20A gfci on a 20A circuit.

The outside again can be 15A or 20A. Same amperage rules apply as the bathroom circuits and same location rules. If it's done in canada it has to be a dedicated circuit.

brric 07-15-2012 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrew79 (Post 966465)
well the bathroom is a wildcard, it depends on the size of the breaker. If it's 15a circuit then your fine. If it's a 20A circuit then i think your fine in the u.s but not fine in canada.

The kitchen needs to be a 20A gfci on a 20A circuit.

The outside again can be 15A or 20A. Same amperage rules apply as the bathroom circuits and same location rules. If it's done in canada it has to be a dedicated circuit.

The kitchen only needs to be a 20 amp recep if you are in Canada. 15 amp recep is fine in USA, on a 20amp circuit.

andrew79 07-15-2012 05:56 PM

the kitchen has to be dedicated in your parts too no?

brric 07-15-2012 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrew79 (Post 966470)
the kitchen has to be dedicated in your parts too no?

At least two 20 amp SABC's to serve countertop receps.

stickboy1375 07-15-2012 06:07 PM

Andrew, do you guys even have any appliances that would utilize a 20 amp receptacle in a kitchen? Seems funny to require 20 amp receptacles and yet no one even owns an appliance with a 20 amp cord. :)

andrew79 07-15-2012 06:12 PM

I think the thoery is that its replacing a split 15. So you could have two ten amp appliances plugged into it. Also our code states you can't have a device rated at less the the breaker size.

stickboy1375 07-15-2012 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrew79 (Post 966488)
Also our code states you can't have a device rated at less the the breaker size.

So you use 20 amp switches as well?

stickboy1375 07-15-2012 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrew79 (Post 966488)
I think the thoery is that its replacing a split 15. So you could have two ten amp appliances plugged into it.

that doesn't make sense because the only difference between a 15 and 20 amp device is the t slot on the cover, meaning they use the same internal parts regardless, they just install a different cover for the amperage difference.

andrew79 07-15-2012 06:33 PM

lighting loads have to be on a 15A breaker in canada, well they did as of the 09 code book. So if you want 20A receptacles you can't have lights hooked in with them. Also on our kitchen counters you can use splits if outside the gfci zone, splits on special gfci breakers inside the zone and 20A gfci's. Only two receptacles max permitted on each circuit though.

And i hate you for making me get out my codebook on a sunday afternoon. :laughing:

actually the guts of our parts are actually rated for the amperage stated on them, that might have something to do with it. Although with all the safety factors involved i'm sure our 15a receptacles are most likely good for 20a as well but hey i don't make the rules.

stickboy1375 07-15-2012 06:36 PM

Thanks Andrew... Im somehow intrigued with the differences in codes.

andrew79 07-15-2012 06:41 PM

i should probably add that all that's only for a dwelling residence. We use 20A circuits for lighting loads in commercial/industrial all the time. They're just super sticky these days with housing. normal receptacles are a thing of the past up here in new homes. Everything that isn't considered dedicated(ie fridge, microwave) has to be tamperproof too.

Mr.HVAC 07-15-2012 09:32 PM

Thank guys,

That's pretty sum it up. I live in U.S so I guest it should be fine. How do you determine the line and load? Is there a way to test it out and if say for example if I wired it in reserve. What would happen? I just wired it base on my guest, My line looks like it is on top and load looks like on bottom, I tested it out and it seem to turn off the outlet, but is there any other test to confirm it's right? I also heard that if you put a gfci in the 1st outlet of the breaker, then the rest in the series should also be protected. So there is no needed for gfci on all outlets. Is that true?

frenchelectrican 07-15-2012 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.HVAC (Post 966454)
Hi everyone, I just installed 3 gfci outlets (1 in bathroom, 1 kitchen, and 1 outside). Just finishing installing it, I noticed that the one on the outside is rated for 20amp and all 3 of my gfci are 15amp. Will this be a safety issue? Should I install it with the right 20amp gfci?

Thanks

I will give you a Joker ( wild card ) so therefore the outdoor receptale can not be tied into the kitchen or bathroom circuits.

That is speced on modern NEC codes but if that was oringal wiring it may be ok to use the bathroom GFCI to feed the outdoor receptale in old codes days ( way before 1984 IIRC )

And the GFCI receptales are rated for 20 amp feed thru which it is common the only differnce is faceplate so that is a wild card there ( some area which the inspector can get picky or in some area they are specfied on that. )

Merci,
Marc

andrew79 07-15-2012 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.HVAC (Post 966665)
Thank guys,

That's pretty sum it up. I live in U.S so I guest it should be fine. How do you determine the line and load? Is there a way to test it out and if say for example if I wired it in reserve. What would happen? I just wired it base on my guest, My line looks like it is on top and load looks like on bottom, I tested it out and it seem to turn off the outlet, but is there any other test to confirm it's right? I also heard that if you put a gfci in the 1st outlet of the breaker, then the rest in the series should also be protected. So there is no needed for gfci on all outlets. Is that true?

as long as the protected outlets get fed from the load side of the gfci your good.


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